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I've seen conservatives gloat about this as a huge win. They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool, and thereby

I've seen conservatives gloat about this as a huge win. They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool, and thereby reducing competition for their own offspring to thrive and take control of the future.

Alupis 3y ago
That's a bizarre take. The conservatives even commenting on this phenomenon mostly champion personal responsibility. ie. they would prefer you act responsibly before you require an abortion.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  It's both. They like that people are taking more personal responsibility to avoid getting pregnant in the first place, and therefore not committing what they believe to be murder in the form of abortion. They also like that liberal minded people who consider abortion an option for an unwanted pregnancy are now increasing their rates of voluntary sterilization, thereby decreasing their future contribution to the gene pool.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    > future contribution to the gene pool This could be some side-effect, but your political ideology is not genetic and therefore self-sterilization has zero impact on the country's future political makeup. Anyone making that argument fundamentally does not understand genetics and child raising. Even within families, children will often hold wildly different political views from each other, let alone their parents. In conservative circles, it's become a sort of meme. People running out and deciding to become responsible after the "safety net" was removed in some select areas. It should be noted that repealing of Roe had zero impact on significant portions of this country - making the meme even more funny within conservative circles. From some conservative's perspective, sure, no abortion is permissible. But that is a hard-liner's perspective, and just like the Democrat party has shifted enormously over the past few decades, so is the Republican party. There are fewer and fewer hard-liners, and more and more folks that just think abortion is supposed to be a last resort - not the first resort. To that end, this was a clear win for that perspective. I think more of us can agree on this perspective than we would think...
    - schemester 3y ago
      No, political ideology is genetic.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
[flagged]
ryanSrich 3y ago
It would be interesting to see these rates and their political affiliation. My guess is that it would be pretty mixed. Seems the “libs sterilizing themselves” is a clear conservative cope.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  I'm sure it will take a couple of years for the data to start to trickle in, but we can get a clue from the fertility rate changes between liberals and conservatives during the covid era. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-pandemic-caused-a-baby-boom-in-red-states-and-a-bust-in-blue-states/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-pandemic-caus...
- lettergram 3y ago
  The numbers are actually quite apparent in terms of fertility: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advantage https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advant... That said, you can probably query the CDC Wonder dataset to see the breakdown of vasectomies by state. I actually think overturning Roe will accelerate abortions in some regions (and completely stop others). There were previously limits on abortions based on age. In Colorado, you can now abort up to birth, for instance. Imo this will lead to a much larger change in the fertility rates.
Dig1t 3y ago
This is an interesting idea. Gay people, trans people, and liberal folks who do stuff like this, are significantly less likely to reproduce. I wonder if after a generation of this we’ll see a drop in liberalism. Kind of seems like we will. You can already see some examples of it in Europe. Europeans are not reproducing, Islamic folks are moving in and bringing their own form of conservativism with them.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  I don't understand US political cohorts, but wouldn't the "libs" who were against this ruling be more incentivized to resist the new order and not get a vasectomy, since you shouldn't have to?
  - Alupis 3y ago
    I can assure you the conservative circles are openly laughing at the idea of people becoming responsible after Roe was repealed - instead of relying on abortion as a defacto contraceptive.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
brentm 3y ago
People are ridiculous.
nyc_data_geek1 3y ago
As though political opinion or ideology is informed by some genetic predisposition. I'd assume it isn't, but I wonder if there's any data anywhere to inform an opinion on this?
- anonporridge 3y ago
  This is definitely a question of how much your genes affects the memes you're susceptible to. However, the ideas you are exposed to throughout your childhood are critically important to how you think as an adult. This is why so many conservatives homeschool.
  - nyc_data_geek1 3y ago
    Because they want to control the information and thoughts their children can access. Isn't this called brainwashing?
    - anonporridge 3y ago
      It's called indoctrination, and everyone does it to their kids. A lot of conservatives have decided they don't like the indoctrination that the state is giving to kids in public school, so they are starting to homeschool their kids to make it more likely that they are indoctrinated in the parent's memes and not the state's.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        > It's called indoctrination, and everyone does it to their kids. I'm sure everyone does it to some degree, but surely not every "indoctrination" is equal, right? If you help foster critical thinking and show proper scientific methodology incl. how to discern good and bad sources, I'd say you're doing less indoctrination than if you don't do this and e.g. just block resources you don't like.
        tivert 3y ago
titusjohnson 3y ago
These are the same conservatives who complain that they ain't getting sex any more, and women are too up-tight. Espousing conservative talking points is like socially castrating yourself. 2/3rds of women won't have anything to do with you. The liberal guys are getting laid.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  Getting laid all the time is quite worthless in judging an individual's evolutionary success if they are infertile and fail to ever pass on their genes to new individuals. My consideration is here is how this might effect larger societal moves as the balance of how reproduces and who does not changes.
  - titusjohnson 3y ago
    Not getting laid because the opposite sex finds you and your thoughts repulsive is also an effective neutering of ones gene line. Getting snipped can at least be done after you've figured out what kind of family you want.
    - anonporridge 3y ago
      Sure, but I think it's silly to suggest that conservative men aren't getting laid en masse. They're quite successful, which is reflected in the fact that red states have a measurable fertility advantage over blue states.
- tivert 3y ago
  >> I've seen conservatives gloat about this as a huge win. >> They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool, and thereby reducing competition for their own offspring to thrive and take control of the future. > These are the same conservatives who complain that they ain't getting sex any more, and women are too up-tight. Chances are you're just failing to differentiate the different members/factions of a loose grouping, so trading in useless stereotypes. Or you might have data showing the same individuals are making all these claims and they comprise a significant portion of the "conservative" population. But if that's the case, show us.
cassepipe 3y ago
See, we don't reproduce via genes, we reproduce thanks to ducked up nuclear families whose founders are controlling/abusive. The future of reproduction is conversion and we don't have to raise a finger for it to happen. We get the last laugh.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  What you just said is really bizarre and I can't make sense of it. Could you rephrase to try to help me understand?
  - cassepipe 3y ago
    This how I imagined the joke in my head: Conservative men think liberal men won't contribute to the gene pool and are happy that their kind will dominate but in the end since they are terrible people their kids end up being liberal anyways. Make more sense ?
jandrese 3y ago
This sounds like an offshoot of the "quiverfull" or "replacement theory" mindset. The idea that immigrants are going to outnumber "natives" so they have to make as many babies as possible because they know how poorly they treat minorities.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  That's part of it for sure. I'm the product of a Christian quiverfull family. In my case, there was never a sense of preserving racial purity, but religious purity. You had big families to ensure that the future would be full of godly Christians. It's part of the goal of making the whole world Christian, and race or nationality didn't have anything to do with it. Of course, it didn't really work. I'm now a wayward atheist, and none of my 4 siblings seem likely at this point to reproduce themselves to continue the process. But the fact is, if you have two populations with very different reproductive rates, the one with the higher rate (assuming it's sustained over many generations) absolutely will subsume the other given enough time. It's just math.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > But the fact is, if you have two populations with very different reproductive rates, the one with the higher rate (assuming it's sustained over many generations) But, you don't have two different populations. Identity groups (whether socially constructed races or religions) aren't isolated lineages.
    - anonporridge 3y ago
      But you do have two different populations that are increasingly not interbreeding. Politics is the new religion, and at least current trends seem to show that it's initiating a new genetic rift. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/really-would-you-let-your-daughter-marry-a-democrat/262959/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/really-... https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/522987-the-partisan-marriage-gap-is-bigger-than-ever/ https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/522987-the-partisan-...
ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
> They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool There is some truth in that. Almost all religions place emphasis on progeny. So religious conservatives tend to procreate more. Hedonists don't follow any such strictures. They tend towards seeking of pleasure in the here and the now, and avoiding multi-decade responsibilities that accompany child-birth. Which means their contribution to the future of humanity will be zero.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  Not necessarily zero. While passing on your genes is incredibly important and powerful, so is passing on memes. And a person who doesn't get caught up in the sacrifice of child rearing may be much more likely to study and develop novel ideas that spread and infect many minds. A teacher is in some ways more influential on the future than a single parent, because the teacher influences hundreds of children's minds over a career, while a parent only creates a handful of children. This is also why conservatives are increasingly concerned about putting their kids in public school which is seeding their minds with memes that they don't like.
foogazi 3y ago
And what do you think ? Hearsay!

Alupis 3y ago

That's a bizarre take. The conservatives even commenting on this phenomenon mostly champion personal responsibility. ie. they would prefer you act responsibly before you require an abortion.

anonporridge 3y ago
It's both. They like that people are taking more personal responsibility to avoid getting pregnant in the first place, and therefore not committing what they believe to be murder in the form of abortion. They also like that liberal minded people who consider abortion an option for an unwanted pregnancy are now increasing their rates of voluntary sterilization, thereby decreasing their future contribution to the gene pool.
- Alupis 3y ago
  > future contribution to the gene pool This could be some side-effect, but your political ideology is not genetic and therefore self-sterilization has zero impact on the country's future political makeup. Anyone making that argument fundamentally does not understand genetics and child raising. Even within families, children will often hold wildly different political views from each other, let alone their parents. In conservative circles, it's become a sort of meme. People running out and deciding to become responsible after the "safety net" was removed in some select areas. It should be noted that repealing of Roe had zero impact on significant portions of this country - making the meme even more funny within conservative circles. From some conservative's perspective, sure, no abortion is permissible. But that is a hard-liner's perspective, and just like the Democrat party has shifted enormously over the past few decades, so is the Republican party. There are fewer and fewer hard-liners, and more and more folks that just think abortion is supposed to be a last resort - not the first resort. To that end, this was a clear win for that perspective. I think more of us can agree on this perspective than we would think...
  - schemester 3y ago
    No, political ideology is genetic.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

[flagged]

ryanSrich 3y ago

It would be interesting to see these rates and their political affiliation. My guess is that it would be pretty mixed. Seems the “libs sterilizing themselves” is a clear conservative cope.

anonporridge 3y ago
I'm sure it will take a couple of years for the data to start to trickle in, but we can get a clue from the fertility rate changes between liberals and conservatives during the covid era. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-pandemic-caused-a-baby-boom-in-red-states-and-a-bust-in-blue-states/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-pandemic-caus...
lettergram 3y ago
The numbers are actually quite apparent in terms of fertility: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advantage https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advant... That said, you can probably query the CDC Wonder dataset to see the breakdown of vasectomies by state. I actually think overturning Roe will accelerate abortions in some regions (and completely stop others). There were previously limits on abortions based on age. In Colorado, you can now abort up to birth, for instance. Imo this will lead to a much larger change in the fertility rates.

Dig1t 3y ago

This is an interesting idea. Gay people, trans people, and liberal folks who do stuff like this, are significantly less likely to reproduce. I wonder if after a generation of this we’ll see a drop in liberalism. Kind of seems like we will. You can already see some examples of it in Europe. Europeans are not reproducing, Islamic folks are moving in and bringing their own form of conservativism with them.

sho_hn 3y ago
I don't understand US political cohorts, but wouldn't the "libs" who were against this ruling be more incentivized to resist the new order and not get a vasectomy, since you shouldn't have to?
- Alupis 3y ago
  I can assure you the conservative circles are openly laughing at the idea of people becoming responsible after Roe was repealed - instead of relying on abortion as a defacto contraceptive.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

brentm 3y ago

People are ridiculous.

nyc_data_geek1 3y ago

As though political opinion or ideology is informed by some genetic predisposition. I'd assume it isn't, but I wonder if there's any data anywhere to inform an opinion on this?

anonporridge 3y ago
This is definitely a question of how much your genes affects the memes you're susceptible to. However, the ideas you are exposed to throughout your childhood are critically important to how you think as an adult. This is why so many conservatives homeschool.
- nyc_data_geek1 3y ago
  Because they want to control the information and thoughts their children can access. Isn't this called brainwashing?
  - anonporridge 3y ago
    It's called indoctrination, and everyone does it to their kids. A lot of conservatives have decided they don't like the indoctrination that the state is giving to kids in public school, so they are starting to homeschool their kids to make it more likely that they are indoctrinated in the parent's memes and not the state's.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      > It's called indoctrination, and everyone does it to their kids. I'm sure everyone does it to some degree, but surely not every "indoctrination" is equal, right? If you help foster critical thinking and show proper scientific methodology incl. how to discern good and bad sources, I'd say you're doing less indoctrination than if you don't do this and e.g. just block resources you don't like.
      - tivert 3y ago

titusjohnson 3y ago

These are the same conservatives who complain that they ain't getting sex any more, and women are too up-tight. Espousing conservative talking points is like socially castrating yourself. 2/3rds of women won't have anything to do with you. The liberal guys are getting laid.

anonporridge 3y ago
Getting laid all the time is quite worthless in judging an individual's evolutionary success if they are infertile and fail to ever pass on their genes to new individuals. My consideration is here is how this might effect larger societal moves as the balance of how reproduces and who does not changes.
- titusjohnson 3y ago
  Not getting laid because the opposite sex finds you and your thoughts repulsive is also an effective neutering of ones gene line. Getting snipped can at least be done after you've figured out what kind of family you want.
  - anonporridge 3y ago
    Sure, but I think it's silly to suggest that conservative men aren't getting laid en masse. They're quite successful, which is reflected in the fact that red states have a measurable fertility advantage over blue states.
tivert 3y ago
>> I've seen conservatives gloat about this as a huge win. >> They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool, and thereby reducing competition for their own offspring to thrive and take control of the future. > These are the same conservatives who complain that they ain't getting sex any more, and women are too up-tight. Chances are you're just failing to differentiate the different members/factions of a loose grouping, so trading in useless stereotypes. Or you might have data showing the same individuals are making all these claims and they comprise a significant portion of the "conservative" population. But if that's the case, show us.

cassepipe 3y ago

See, we don't reproduce via genes, we reproduce thanks to ducked up nuclear families whose founders are controlling/abusive. The future of reproduction is conversion and we don't have to raise a finger for it to happen. We get the last laugh.

anonporridge 3y ago
What you just said is really bizarre and I can't make sense of it. Could you rephrase to try to help me understand?
- cassepipe 3y ago
  This how I imagined the joke in my head: Conservative men think liberal men won't contribute to the gene pool and are happy that their kind will dominate but in the end since they are terrible people their kids end up being liberal anyways. Make more sense ?

jandrese 3y ago

This sounds like an offshoot of the "quiverfull" or "replacement theory" mindset. The idea that immigrants are going to outnumber "natives" so they have to make as many babies as possible because they know how poorly they treat minorities.

anonporridge 3y ago
That's part of it for sure. I'm the product of a Christian quiverfull family. In my case, there was never a sense of preserving racial purity, but religious purity. You had big families to ensure that the future would be full of godly Christians. It's part of the goal of making the whole world Christian, and race or nationality didn't have anything to do with it. Of course, it didn't really work. I'm now a wayward atheist, and none of my 4 siblings seem likely at this point to reproduce themselves to continue the process. But the fact is, if you have two populations with very different reproductive rates, the one with the higher rate (assuming it's sustained over many generations) absolutely will subsume the other given enough time. It's just math.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > But the fact is, if you have two populations with very different reproductive rates, the one with the higher rate (assuming it's sustained over many generations) But, you don't have two different populations. Identity groups (whether socially constructed races or religions) aren't isolated lineages.
  - anonporridge 3y ago
    But you do have two different populations that are increasingly not interbreeding. Politics is the new religion, and at least current trends seem to show that it's initiating a new genetic rift. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/really-would-you-let-your-daughter-marry-a-democrat/262959/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/really-... https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/522987-the-partisan-marriage-gap-is-bigger-than-ever/ https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/522987-the-partisan-...

ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago

> They see it as liberal men voluntarily limiting their future contribution to the gene pool There is some truth in that. Almost all religions place emphasis on progeny. So religious conservatives tend to procreate more. Hedonists don't follow any such strictures. They tend towards seeking of pleasure in the here and the now, and avoiding multi-decade responsibilities that accompany child-birth. Which means their contribution to the future of humanity will be zero.

anonporridge 3y ago
Not necessarily zero. While passing on your genes is incredibly important and powerful, so is passing on memes. And a person who doesn't get caught up in the sacrifice of child rearing may be much more likely to study and develop novel ideas that spread and infect many minds. A teacher is in some ways more influential on the future than a single parent, because the teacher influences hundreds of children's minds over a career, while a parent only creates a handful of children. This is also why conservatives are increasingly concerned about putting their kids in public school which is seeding their minds with memes that they don't like.

foogazi 3y ago

And what do you think ? Hearsay!