3 ms·

> My salary here as an American can feel very low, but I feel wealthy in Sweden. You don't need to make a lot of money to live a good life. Back in the US, I wa

> My salary here as an American can feel very low, but I feel wealthy in Sweden. You don't need to make a lot of money to live a good life. Back in the US, I was making $60,000 a year before taxes and that was almost eight years ago. Here, my annual salary is around $45,000 a year before taxes. I've lived in LA for about 3 years now and I find it fascinating how lackluster the salaries are in this area (for both technical and non-technical roles). $60K isn't even paycheck to paycheck for Burbank. That's just simply not enough to afford basic housing. No wonder people get burned out.

nine_zeros 3y ago
In America, the rat race never ends. It doesn't even pause. The race continues until you die. The system is designed to extract as much value out of employees as possible and as much money out of consumers as possible. Living a life where one can't even take a pause is incredibly stressful. There is a reason why the FIRE movement is so popular in America. People are sick of living here.
- flashback2199 3y ago
  I used to think this, but now I think that, especially given what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here, the problem might actually be me, most likely requiring a process of both learning and un-learning. There is just too much wealth in this country for "rat race" to be a worthwhile way for me to be doing life in the long term. I've kind of been thinking of it lately as an optimization problem where the rat race is a local maximum and that there are higher local maxima adjacent to rat race that I could get to that I just don't know about yet.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    > I used to think this, but now I think that, especially given what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here, the problem might actually be me, most likely requiring a process of both learning and un-learning. This is a good point but is orthogonal to the "rat race". The reason immigrants are succeeding is because they are motivated. America historically self-selected for the motivated by asking people to make perilous journeys and give everything up to start over in a new land. Very few people want to do this. But, to the "rat race", these same immigrants also hate the American rat race. They ALL want to make the money, invest and retire. Modern day immigrants even go to the extent of making the money and leaving America entirely. They don't want to "live" in this rat race. They want to "work" and get out of here. > I've kind of been thinking of it lately as an optimization problem where the rat race is a local maximum and that there are higher local maxima adjacent to rat race that I could get to that I just don't know about yet. Rat race is a local maximum, where you get enough money to not "have to" work ever. The next step is either your own business or FIRE entirely. This is the modern American way. As an example, if you visit Thailand, you'll see a lot of Americans who own bars, restaurants etc. They made enough money in America to be able to quit the rat race and now are living for cheap while building their assets - except they are doing it in growing Asian countries instead of the midwest.
    - flashback2199 3y ago
      I looked into the expat thing and concluded that bailing out to a foreign land before exhausting the possibilities here would be a poor decision. A bit like jumping to a full rewrite when a problem arises in a project.
      - nine_zeros 3y ago
        It doesn't have to be a full rewrite. It can just be option if/when you feel like it. Life is long, priorities change.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    "what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here" Depends on what "what" means. If it means the high life, "many" is still a tiny fraction. We all want to believe you can hit it big in the USA, but the reality is that, statistically, you won't. Just one of many articles on the subject (and not the most damning that I can remember): https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4662456 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=466245...
    - flashback2199 3y ago
      I purposefully leave that vague.

nine_zeros 3y ago

In America, the rat race never ends. It doesn't even pause. The race continues until you die. The system is designed to extract as much value out of employees as possible and as much money out of consumers as possible. Living a life where one can't even take a pause is incredibly stressful. There is a reason why the FIRE movement is so popular in America. People are sick of living here.

flashback2199 3y ago
I used to think this, but now I think that, especially given what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here, the problem might actually be me, most likely requiring a process of both learning and un-learning. There is just too much wealth in this country for "rat race" to be a worthwhile way for me to be doing life in the long term. I've kind of been thinking of it lately as an optimization problem where the rat race is a local maximum and that there are higher local maxima adjacent to rat race that I could get to that I just don't know about yet.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  > I used to think this, but now I think that, especially given what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here, the problem might actually be me, most likely requiring a process of both learning and un-learning. This is a good point but is orthogonal to the "rat race". The reason immigrants are succeeding is because they are motivated. America historically self-selected for the motivated by asking people to make perilous journeys and give everything up to start over in a new land. Very few people want to do this. But, to the "rat race", these same immigrants also hate the American rat race. They ALL want to make the money, invest and retire. Modern day immigrants even go to the extent of making the money and leaving America entirely. They don't want to "live" in this rat race. They want to "work" and get out of here. > I've kind of been thinking of it lately as an optimization problem where the rat race is a local maximum and that there are higher local maxima adjacent to rat race that I could get to that I just don't know about yet. Rat race is a local maximum, where you get enough money to not "have to" work ever. The next step is either your own business or FIRE entirely. This is the modern American way. As an example, if you visit Thailand, you'll see a lot of Americans who own bars, restaurants etc. They made enough money in America to be able to quit the rat race and now are living for cheap while building their assets - except they are doing it in growing Asian countries instead of the midwest.
  - flashback2199 3y ago
    I looked into the expat thing and concluded that bailing out to a foreign land before exhausting the possibilities here would be a poor decision. A bit like jumping to a full rewrite when a problem arises in a project.
    - nine_zeros 3y ago
      It doesn't have to be a full rewrite. It can just be option if/when you feel like it. Life is long, priorities change.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  "what many immigrants and Americans born into poverty are able to do here" Depends on what "what" means. If it means the high life, "many" is still a tiny fraction. We all want to believe you can hit it big in the USA, but the reality is that, statistically, you won't. Just one of many articles on the subject (and not the most damning that I can remember): https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4662456 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=466245...
  - flashback2199 3y ago
    I purposefully leave that vague.