4 ms·

> Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity W

> Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity Wouldn't it make more sense and be potentially more cost effective if the focus was on giving people food and other essentials so they could survive without having to steal scooters? Police and prison are super expensive. You're going to be paying for the food, lodging and industrial grade military complex vs food, lodging and maybe some green spaces and public works projects.

forgetfulness 3y ago
What would be stopping people from taking the aid and stealing the scooters anyway? You can only rely so much on the inherent goodness of humans. Add organized crime into the mix and you run into the problem that might makes right for plenty of people, specially if there's easy money and "respect" involved.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  What is driving people to steal the scooters if not the need to pay for food and housing?
  - alexb_ 3y ago
    Money? Plenty of people exist that lack any sort of empathy, and theft is just a risk vs reward calculation. If there's no punishment for getting caught, and reward for not getting caught, then you should always take that gamble. When you completely eliminate all social trust in a society, all empathy is lost and theft just becomes a mathematical equation of risk and reward.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      > When you completely eliminate all social trust in a society, all empathy is lost and theft just becomes a mathematical equation of risk and reward. Almost exactly like how corporations operate. If the profit for doing XYZ is greater than the probability of getting caught times the expected penalty, you do XYZ.
  - forgetfulness 3y ago
    Greed and selfishness are common human flaws, and that's just thinking of individual petty thieves; ambitious, enterprising and ruthless criminals are apt to see business and power they can secure if they are unopposed.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    A desire for luxuries, and a disregard for other people.
  - momirlan 3y ago
    let me quote from a pickpocket i met in Barcelona: "i sleep all day and at night i go out to steal. by morning i have a big stash of cash, life is good". he was not motivated by hunger or poverty, just having a good time, and what he perceived as a good life
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
It seems to be an unfortunate truth that private, for-profit prisons are the opposite of expensive.
- boppo1 3y ago
  Are there any publicly traded pure-play prison companies? Not interested in investing, but would be fascinated to read their 10-Ks. Do they get significant revenue from anywhere other than taxpayers? I know they sell labor and charge for phone calls, but that can't add up to terribly much more than their food + supply costs.
- Arrath 3y ago
  How do you mean? Are you supposing they are more cost-effective that public run prisons?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    I am observing that many prisons in the US are run privately by corporations for the sake of making a profit. The incarcerated people in such establishments are often given shorter sentences if they agree to perform manual labor for little to no pay. Even if the prisons are getting subsidies which make them profitable, I suspect the owners consider it to be an asset more than a liability.
Dig1t 3y ago
I don't know if you've met a lot of criminals, but many are not committing crimes purely for survival. They want phones, TV's, cars etc. Crime is a way to get those things. If there is no disincentive (i.e. punishment) for committing crime, then many will still do the crime.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  I have, and to an instance they come from impoverished and damaged home lives. Often their parents were in prison or extremely poor. People living with dignity will lower crime and make them less antagonistic to those who aren't suffering often generational damage.
  - forgetfulness 3y ago
    Right, but the newer generations that wouldn't be the subject of this under social programs will come under the predation and oppression of those who took on the path of violence if you don't offer them protection; you can't just picture this as poor people stealing luxury goods from tech bros, there's a reason why people who are subject to these things are often friendly to tough-on-crime policies.
    - bluefishinit 3y ago
      I disagree, it was tough-on-crime policies, specifically the war on drugs and discriminatory policing that caused the problems we have today. Continuing these policies will only compound the issues.
      - forgetfulness 3y ago
        I'm not saying that tough-on-crime policies are the right answer, I'm saying that things like the three-strikes-law enjoyed support from communities afflicted by crime because they are the primary victims of criminals. They will want solace from criminals who are threatening them today, not mere promises that their communities will be safer 20 years from now. Providing security is one of the State's most basic functions and people will demand it.
j0hnyl 3y ago
Are police & prison super expensive or are they massive income generators? They provide a large funnel of fines and slave labor.
zdragnar 3y ago
There's a lot of people imagining this crime to be Jean Val Jean stealing a loaf of bread to eat. It isn't; much of the crime is committed via organized retail theft. A relatively small handful are disproportionately abusing the system. The NYPD released some stats awhile back- one of the highest rates of recidivism for an individual in NYC was an offender with 101 arrests, 88 of which were since 2020. Another farther down the list was with 87 total arrests, 25 since 2020, 9 of which include a robbery charge. Those are just the numbers for two individuals who happen to actually get caught. Most retail theft doesn't end in an arrest. So long as it is profitable to do, and easier than working a job, people will keep doing it. Building more "projects" isn't going to change that.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  People steal from retail because "playing by the rules" nets them nothing. The choice isn't between "work hard and succeed" and "steal and live an easy life". The reality is there is no option for success or living an even dignified existence under the current system. That is the root issue, not people stealing razors from Walgreens.

forgetfulness 3y ago

What would be stopping people from taking the aid and stealing the scooters anyway? You can only rely so much on the inherent goodness of humans. Add organized crime into the mix and you run into the problem that might makes right for plenty of people, specially if there's easy money and "respect" involved.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
What is driving people to steal the scooters if not the need to pay for food and housing?
- alexb_ 3y ago
  Money? Plenty of people exist that lack any sort of empathy, and theft is just a risk vs reward calculation. If there's no punishment for getting caught, and reward for not getting caught, then you should always take that gamble. When you completely eliminate all social trust in a society, all empathy is lost and theft just becomes a mathematical equation of risk and reward.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    > When you completely eliminate all social trust in a society, all empathy is lost and theft just becomes a mathematical equation of risk and reward. Almost exactly like how corporations operate. If the profit for doing XYZ is greater than the probability of getting caught times the expected penalty, you do XYZ.
- forgetfulness 3y ago
  Greed and selfishness are common human flaws, and that's just thinking of individual petty thieves; ambitious, enterprising and ruthless criminals are apt to see business and power they can secure if they are unopposed.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  A desire for luxuries, and a disregard for other people.
- momirlan 3y ago
  let me quote from a pickpocket i met in Barcelona: "i sleep all day and at night i go out to steal. by morning i have a big stash of cash, life is good". he was not motivated by hunger or poverty, just having a good time, and what he perceived as a good life

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

It seems to be an unfortunate truth that private, for-profit prisons are the opposite of expensive.

boppo1 3y ago
Are there any publicly traded pure-play prison companies? Not interested in investing, but would be fascinated to read their 10-Ks. Do they get significant revenue from anywhere other than taxpayers? I know they sell labor and charge for phone calls, but that can't add up to terribly much more than their food + supply costs.
Arrath 3y ago
How do you mean? Are you supposing they are more cost-effective that public run prisons?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  I am observing that many prisons in the US are run privately by corporations for the sake of making a profit. The incarcerated people in such establishments are often given shorter sentences if they agree to perform manual labor for little to no pay. Even if the prisons are getting subsidies which make them profitable, I suspect the owners consider it to be an asset more than a liability.

Dig1t 3y ago

I don't know if you've met a lot of criminals, but many are not committing crimes purely for survival. They want phones, TV's, cars etc. Crime is a way to get those things. If there is no disincentive (i.e. punishment) for committing crime, then many will still do the crime.

bluefishinit 3y ago
I have, and to an instance they come from impoverished and damaged home lives. Often their parents were in prison or extremely poor. People living with dignity will lower crime and make them less antagonistic to those who aren't suffering often generational damage.
- forgetfulness 3y ago
  Right, but the newer generations that wouldn't be the subject of this under social programs will come under the predation and oppression of those who took on the path of violence if you don't offer them protection; you can't just picture this as poor people stealing luxury goods from tech bros, there's a reason why people who are subject to these things are often friendly to tough-on-crime policies.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    I disagree, it was tough-on-crime policies, specifically the war on drugs and discriminatory policing that caused the problems we have today. Continuing these policies will only compound the issues.
    - forgetfulness 3y ago
      I'm not saying that tough-on-crime policies are the right answer, I'm saying that things like the three-strikes-law enjoyed support from communities afflicted by crime because they are the primary victims of criminals. They will want solace from criminals who are threatening them today, not mere promises that their communities will be safer 20 years from now. Providing security is one of the State's most basic functions and people will demand it.

j0hnyl 3y ago

Are police & prison super expensive or are they massive income generators? They provide a large funnel of fines and slave labor.

zdragnar 3y ago

There's a lot of people imagining this crime to be Jean Val Jean stealing a loaf of bread to eat. It isn't; much of the crime is committed via organized retail theft. A relatively small handful are disproportionately abusing the system. The NYPD released some stats awhile back- one of the highest rates of recidivism for an individual in NYC was an offender with 101 arrests, 88 of which were since 2020. Another farther down the list was with 87 total arrests, 25 since 2020, 9 of which include a robbery charge. Those are just the numbers for two individuals who happen to actually get caught. Most retail theft doesn't end in an arrest. So long as it is profitable to do, and easier than working a job, people will keep doing it. Building more "projects" isn't going to change that.

bluefishinit 3y ago
People steal from retail because "playing by the rules" nets them nothing. The choice isn't between "work hard and succeed" and "steal and live an easy life". The reality is there is no option for success or living an even dignified existence under the current system. That is the root issue, not people stealing razors from Walgreens.