3 ms·

I wouldn't put SF in the great cities list. Maybe it had something back in the 80's or 90's - it's own charm or soul. But for the past 15 year's it's slowly tur

I wouldn't put SF in the great cities list. Maybe it had something back in the 80's or 90's - it's own charm or soul. But for the past 15 year's it's slowly turned into a soulless, charmless, no character city where everyone is in tech and thinks the same. I may be in the miniority on this site - but frankly I think it's sucked for a while now. I've had much better times in other big cities worldwide.

deleted 3y ago
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ethbr0 3y ago
People move to a city because they want to be more like the people who already live there. But if too many move in too fast, the city instead becomes like them.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  No, most people move to a city for a job - not because they think the average person that lives there is some aspirational target. SF had an abundance of jobs that paid a boat load of money, and people moved there to take those jobs. Not because it's close to Muir Woods and has the best weather in the world, and the people at cafes wear cool t-shirts (although nearly everyone who moves to SF tries their hardest to convince themselves this is the real reason, not the job and the money).
  - buggythebug 3y ago
    Agreed. Going for the $$$ is a completely different and valid reason. But to say it's in the top 10 most fun and cultural cities is a giant reach.
  - apsurd 3y ago
    What? I know we're talking about SF but the LA example is much more obviously clear: so everyone in LA _is actually in entertainment_ when they move? The servers and baristas went there "for the job" as a server and barista, but also acting, of which they already have well paying jobs in? I'm not even making sense to myself. Point is, absolutely... there's an aspirational part to moving to a big city, and yes they move for the weather, and yes they move to be closer to nature.
    - pc86 3y ago
      There are probably a hundred thousand places in California alone where you can be "closer to nature" than San Francisco.
  - lanstin 3y ago
    Problem is a lot of people already in SF where not there for tech jobs, but beauty, art, banking, social movements, good industrial work, fishing/canning jobs, all that sort of thing. The unusually high software/tech related salaries have somewhat diminished the ability of the other folks to enjoy the lifestyles they previously enjoyed.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
      > The unusually high software/tech related salaries have somewhat diminished the ability of the other folks to enjoy the lifestyles they previously enjoyed. Absolutely false. The refusal of NIMBYists to allow anything to get built which pushed housing costs to infinity is what pushed everyone out w/o a top-1% paying job. Not that the Bay created a bunch of high paying jobs.
  - robotburrito 3y ago
    I moved here because of the location, not the jobs. I could care less about standing about in an open office with noise canceling headphones all day. If you want a walkable place to live that is near some of the most wonderful cycling in the entire world, it is hard to beat.
- buggythebug 3y ago
  Not true at all. Everyone is not the same in great cities.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  SF also refused to adapt. Poor public transportation, extremely low building height.
ravenstine 3y ago
The minority you point out is an ever shrinking one. I remember coming close to a decade ago when I'd be chastised for suggesting that SF is dumpy because there's human poop, bins overflowing with rotten food waste, large packs of rats, and junkies sniffing lines in broad daylight all over the place there, but today few here will deny this anymore. I want to love SF, and I'm not just saying that. Yet, every time I visit, it's visibly worse and I often end up in some bizarre verbal altercation with a BART employee or resident of the streets. Los Angeles, the city where I live today, has its own issues, some of which dwarf that of SF, but not nearly as often do I arrive home at night with a story to tell. And somehow we manage to have less poop.
- apsurd 3y ago
  The poop is just spread out so you don't notice it any given place you happen to be, because LA is bigger. Much bigger.
compiler-guy 3y ago
All those people living on the street are not in tech. Nor are the people making the coffee and serving the food. Or sweeping the streets or cleaning the houses.
Solvency 3y ago
Aside from how SF stacks up in the "great cities" list, many people like myself have a lifelong attraction to the bay area for entirely geographical reasons. It's absolutely gorgeous. The land, the water, the mountains, everything about that region is physically incredible. And those aspects are rather immutable and special.
- lanstin 3y ago
  You can close your eyes and just drive to some random place, a 7-11 or whatever, and it is so beautiful that it would be a state park in Maryland. And the weather is so nice you can leave your tiny overpriced house and go visit the beauty every day.

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ethbr0 3y ago

People move to a city because they want to be more like the people who already live there. But if too many move in too fast, the city instead becomes like them.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
No, most people move to a city for a job - not because they think the average person that lives there is some aspirational target. SF had an abundance of jobs that paid a boat load of money, and people moved there to take those jobs. Not because it's close to Muir Woods and has the best weather in the world, and the people at cafes wear cool t-shirts (although nearly everyone who moves to SF tries their hardest to convince themselves this is the real reason, not the job and the money).
- buggythebug 3y ago
  Agreed. Going for the $$$ is a completely different and valid reason. But to say it's in the top 10 most fun and cultural cities is a giant reach.
- apsurd 3y ago
  What? I know we're talking about SF but the LA example is much more obviously clear: so everyone in LA _is actually in entertainment_ when they move? The servers and baristas went there "for the job" as a server and barista, but also acting, of which they already have well paying jobs in? I'm not even making sense to myself. Point is, absolutely... there's an aspirational part to moving to a big city, and yes they move for the weather, and yes they move to be closer to nature.
  - pc86 3y ago
    There are probably a hundred thousand places in California alone where you can be "closer to nature" than San Francisco.
- lanstin 3y ago
  Problem is a lot of people already in SF where not there for tech jobs, but beauty, art, banking, social movements, good industrial work, fishing/canning jobs, all that sort of thing. The unusually high software/tech related salaries have somewhat diminished the ability of the other folks to enjoy the lifestyles they previously enjoyed.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    > The unusually high software/tech related salaries have somewhat diminished the ability of the other folks to enjoy the lifestyles they previously enjoyed. Absolutely false. The refusal of NIMBYists to allow anything to get built which pushed housing costs to infinity is what pushed everyone out w/o a top-1% paying job. Not that the Bay created a bunch of high paying jobs.
- robotburrito 3y ago
  I moved here because of the location, not the jobs. I could care less about standing about in an open office with noise canceling headphones all day. If you want a walkable place to live that is near some of the most wonderful cycling in the entire world, it is hard to beat.
buggythebug 3y ago
Not true at all. Everyone is not the same in great cities.
AYBABTME 3y ago
SF also refused to adapt. Poor public transportation, extremely low building height.

ravenstine 3y ago

The minority you point out is an ever shrinking one. I remember coming close to a decade ago when I'd be chastised for suggesting that SF is dumpy because there's human poop, bins overflowing with rotten food waste, large packs of rats, and junkies sniffing lines in broad daylight all over the place there, but today few here will deny this anymore. I want to love SF, and I'm not just saying that. Yet, every time I visit, it's visibly worse and I often end up in some bizarre verbal altercation with a BART employee or resident of the streets. Los Angeles, the city where I live today, has its own issues, some of which dwarf that of SF, but not nearly as often do I arrive home at night with a story to tell. And somehow we manage to have less poop.

apsurd 3y ago
The poop is just spread out so you don't notice it any given place you happen to be, because LA is bigger. Much bigger.

compiler-guy 3y ago

All those people living on the street are not in tech. Nor are the people making the coffee and serving the food. Or sweeping the streets or cleaning the houses.

Solvency 3y ago

Aside from how SF stacks up in the "great cities" list, many people like myself have a lifelong attraction to the bay area for entirely geographical reasons. It's absolutely gorgeous. The land, the water, the mountains, everything about that region is physically incredible. And those aspects are rather immutable and special.

lanstin 3y ago
You can close your eyes and just drive to some random place, a 7-11 or whatever, and it is so beautiful that it would be a state park in Maryland. And the weather is so nice you can leave your tiny overpriced house and go visit the beauty every day.