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I don't get why we put up with political parties at all... is it to have somebody to blame, somebody who is not ourselves? Because, if it wasn't so, we would en

by dsign 3y ago

I don't get why we put up with political parties at all... is it to have somebody to blame, somebody who is not ourselves? Because, if it wasn't so, we would enact direct democracy, and the next time that a lobby group wants to pocket a politician, it would have to pocket each and every single citizen...which I guess they could do by paying voluntary taxes...

Veen 3y ago
If we had direct democracy in the UK, immigration would be banned, Brexit would have happened in the 1980s, and murderers and child molesters would be hanged.
- Ntrails 3y ago
  - yes and no, I suspect you would see a stricter system with numerical limits. Aus is often touted as a good example - the EEC would have stayed as just that, I suspect. Perhaps the EU would have formed without us, hard to know. - yup
Analemma_ 3y ago
> I don't get why we put up with political parties at all... For two reasons: First, because politics is an ecosystem, and political parties are much stronger than unorganized political actors, so they outcompete and win. Your effectiveness is multiplied tremendously if you have an organized group which can fundraise, make small compromises among its members to reach common goals, scan membership to find compelling leaders, etc. Unorganized political actors have no chance against parties, and so they adapt (by becoming parties themselves) or die. Second, because "political parties" are just a fact of gathering large numbers of humans: they will always have different opinions, and form tribes and cliques with like-minded people. If you don't have explicit parties, you will have hidden, implicit, internal ones, and that is much worse. See The Tyranny of Structurelessness, or alternatively one-party states like China, which still do have political factions, because having political factions is something people naturally do, but hide these behind the opacity of the CCP, leading to much less transparent decision-making.
- mistermann 3y ago
  Organization seems like a missing link. And then there's this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/04/could-tiktok-ban-bill-criminalize-vpn-use-the-eff-says-its-not-impossible/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202... I do not think our rulers (or their advisors at least) are complete dummies.

by dsign 3y ago

Veen 3y ago

If we had direct democracy in the UK, immigration would be banned, Brexit would have happened in the 1980s, and murderers and child molesters would be hanged.

Ntrails 3y ago
- yes and no, I suspect you would see a stricter system with numerical limits. Aus is often touted as a good example - the EEC would have stayed as just that, I suspect. Perhaps the EU would have formed without us, hard to know. - yup

Analemma_ 3y ago

> I don't get why we put up with political parties at all... For two reasons: First, because politics is an ecosystem, and political parties are much stronger than unorganized political actors, so they outcompete and win. Your effectiveness is multiplied tremendously if you have an organized group which can fundraise, make small compromises among its members to reach common goals, scan membership to find compelling leaders, etc. Unorganized political actors have no chance against parties, and so they adapt (by becoming parties themselves) or die. Second, because "political parties" are just a fact of gathering large numbers of humans: they will always have different opinions, and form tribes and cliques with like-minded people. If you don't have explicit parties, you will have hidden, implicit, internal ones, and that is much worse. See The Tyranny of Structurelessness, or alternatively one-party states like China, which still do have political factions, because having political factions is something people naturally do, but hide these behind the opacity of the CCP, leading to much less transparent decision-making.

mistermann 3y ago
Organization seems like a missing link. And then there's this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/04/could-tiktok-ban-bill-criminalize-vpn-use-the-eff-says-its-not-impossible/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202... I do not think our rulers (or their advisors at least) are complete dummies.