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The LLM _is_ the product. Everything else in the stack is window dressing. I don’t think OpenAI’s contribution should be so understated- they built a technolog
by icapybara 3y ago
The LLM _is_ the product. Everything else in the stack is window dressing.
I don’t think OpenAI’s contribution should be so understated- they built a technology that was considered science fiction just a few years ago. They deserve all the credit for the “AI”.
- ngngngng 3y agoGood luck building a moat when 95% of your app is just calling the API everyone else has access to.
- inductive_magic 3y ago100% of all existing code is just calling an OS-API that everyone else has access to. That's just nonsense
- nsxwolf 3y agoYes, but also, come on now.
- grrrate 3y ago[dead]
- inductive_magic 3y agoI mean, it refutes the argument. Everyone has access to the internet, to conv nets, to C/python/pandas/TCP, you name it. Yet, nobody would seriously argue that one can not build a moat with products based on those stacks for the reason that everyone else has access to the same stack. Its just not an argument, at all. We can now write software that interprets language under the hood (to some degree). The value propositions enabled by this change in the world are so vast, and partly so complex - to make absolute statements like "yeah but you don't control the model, so anyone can copy your solution" seems out of touch to me. What subset of technology doesn't get reverse engineered? Either this applies almost nowhere (because every piece of tech that an engineer can get their hands on is effectively open), or everywhere.
- icapybara 3y agoAnyone can build an OS without needing billions of dollars, and in fact there are state of the art open source OSes. Not quite the same.
- forgingahead 3y agoPaul English (founder of Kayak, exited at $2 billion) said this in response to the exact comment you are making: "Kayak was just a thin layer above ITA, and ITA sold for $700m and Kayak sold for $2b. So don’t dismiss thin layers. The ultimate power is the app and UX."[0] I would also add "distribution" to the "app and UX" part, but you can certainly build a valuable business upon an API "everyone else has access to" - plenty of companies out there that do that. [0]https://twitter.com/englishpaulm/status/1623701758781558784 https://twitter.com/englishpaulm/status/1623701758781558784
- ngngngng 3y agoI can appreciate this, but there's a reason I said 95%. The stuff I see being built so far is really an extremely thin veneer on top of the API, but that could change with time.
- whimsicalism 3y agoKayak would never have succeeded today. Competition is far too hungry
- angryasian 3y agomore like utilizing prompts that anyone can figure out
- ubermon 3y agoMoat does not come from compile time but runtime. The company, the operation, and the accumulated data, the brand, the trust and the reputation.
- solarmist 3y agoThere are technology moats as well, but for the most part, you're correct. Everything else usually matters much more.
- ano88888 3y agoby this logic, you can just copy facebook, twitter and pretty all software as they are just calling some high level api (http protocol , ios/android api..) etc .
- poulpy123 3y agothere are plenty of FB, twitter and reddit alternative, they just don't have the data of the original. but openAI provide the API and the data
- poulpy123 3y agowhat does this moat even mean in this context ? I see it throw around but cannot infer the meaning
- inductive_magic 3y agoI wasn't trying to understate OpenAI's contribution, far from it. I can hardly express my appreciation for their work. That doesn't mean that everything else in the stack is window dressing though - custom, domain specific wrangling with the different api endpoints, finding a satisfying prompt, temperature param etc. for specific tasks - the entire process of designing systems around an LLM-api has many intricacies to it, lots of which are completely uncharted territory. I can assure you: very smart people are knees deep in this process, and they deserve the credit for their share of the value that is being created.
- whimsicalism 3y agoI am not convinced it won’t all be obviated with improvements in the foundation model. Seems to be carving out a very very temporary space for yourself.
- inductive_magic 3y agoRe: smart people avoiding wrapper work - sure! Not just because the result might be short lived, but also because there is a lot more prestige in building something from scratch rather than wrapping. However, the "very very temporary space" might as well lead to momentum and a moat in a subdomain, and anyone who met a sufficiently large number of smart people knows that lots of them are very pragmatic, don't chase prestige, and enjoy laying ground work for future iterations.
- sharkjacobs 3y ago> The engine _is_ the product. Everything else in the car is window dressing.
- icapybara 3y agoInteresting analogy, since the engine manufacturer also manufactures the car.
- golergka 3y agoI think that people who believe this don't realise how complex and nuanced code surrounding LLMs have gotten in the last half a year.