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This point is understated. So many people are going around like "I'm building an AI app!" when the reality is, OpenAI built an AI app, you're just designing a f

This point is understated. So many people are going around like "I'm building an AI app!" when the reality is, OpenAI built an AI app, you're just designing a front end for it.

philipov 3y ago
So, ChatGPT isn't a technology, it is a service.
- 411111111111111 3y ago
  That was never in question. ChatGPT is openAIs web frontend for several of their GPT-Models. The technology is just GPT and transformers, the open source alternatives are just not as advanced as the GPT4 model yet. It might change with current trajectory, mainly because OpenAI keeps nerfing it.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    The technology is in the hardware/software synergy.
inductive_magic 3y ago
OpenAI builds an LLM and an api-interface to that model. The design of abstractions, prompt engineering, custom fine-tunes and software engineering required to ship a valuable application on top of that interface counts as "building an app" in my book.
- bfeynman 3y ago
  how can you finetune gpt-4 or 3.5? The shell/wrapper around a request to open AI is not any worthy piece of software, It'd be more impressive to vend those services. Otherwise it's basically just a few scripts.
  - thethimble 3y ago
    Google has recently announced infrastructure for fine tuning and RLHF on their pre trained foundation models. I imagine all cloud providers will follow suit. https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/docs/generative-ai/models/tune-models https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/docs/generative-ai/models...
  - inductive_magic 3y ago
    As your wording implies, finetuning is restricted to the smaller models, i.e. babbage, curie etc. You can generate the training data for this with 3.5 and 4 and tune smaller models with the resulting data. For lots of tasks, this results in robust results, which btw are also faster than 3.5 turbo.
- icapybara 3y ago
  The LLM _is_ the product. Everything else in the stack is window dressing. I don’t think OpenAI’s contribution should be so understated- they built a technology that was considered science fiction just a few years ago. They deserve all the credit for the “AI”.
  - ngngngng 3y ago
    Good luck building a moat when 95% of your app is just calling the API everyone else has access to.
    - inductive_magic 3y ago
      100% of all existing code is just calling an OS-API that everyone else has access to. That's just nonsense
      - nsxwolf 3y ago
        Yes, but also, come on now.
        grrrate 3y ago
        [dead]
        inductive_magic 3y ago
        I mean, it refutes the argument. Everyone has access to the internet, to conv nets, to C/python/pandas/TCP, you name it. Yet, nobody would seriously argue that one can not build a moat with products based on those stacks for the reason that everyone else has access to the same stack. Its just not an argument, at all. We can now write software that interprets language under the hood (to some degree). The value propositions enabled by this change in the world are so vast, and partly so complex - to make absolute statements like "yeah but you don't control the model, so anyone can copy your solution" seems out of touch to me. What subset of technology doesn't get reverse engineered? Either this applies almost nowhere (because every piece of tech that an engineer can get their hands on is effectively open), or everywhere.
- Zvez 3y ago
  while this is technically correct, difference is that your product won't survive without openai at this point. If you need the model quality openai provides you are stuck and your product can just disappear. Because llm is core building block, irreplaceable one.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Building a product that relies 100% on a single external vendor is taking a huge risk. So many companies have been burned by this in the past that it's amazing anyone doesn't see it as a risky thing. So I have to believe that the people making these products are intending to make as much cash as possible up front and aren't aiming for a long-term thing.
    - cudgy 3y ago
      Use the facade pattern so it’s easier to swap out if needed.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > required to ship a valuable application on top of that interface counts as "building an app" in my book. It's certainly building an app. It's not building an AI app, though. It's building a front-end to an existing AI application.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  Of course it is an app, but ultimately it is just a frontend.
- throwaway292939 3y ago
  It's just like building a Facebook app back in the day Replace social media / graph APIs with the ones from OpenAI
thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago
There is a lot of engineering work and reasoning to make sufficiently complex prompts. Depending on your business case, the 4096 tokens given to you have to go quite far. Vector embeddings are not "easy" to work with. Trying to splat together a range of techniques to craft a good prompt is hard™. Adding in Actions (e.g. using headless browsers to open pages etc) is also pioneering territory. Sucks that OpenAI currently has the market, but there is still plenty of reasons to develop on top of it.
killingtime74 3y ago
Wait so when I'm using postgres I'm just designing a front end for it? Maybe I'm just designing a front end for my CPU?

This point is understated. So many people are going around like "I'm building an AI app!" when the reality is, OpenAI built an AI app, you're just designing a front end for it.

philipov 3y ago

So, ChatGPT isn't a technology, it is a service.

411111111111111 3y ago
That was never in question. ChatGPT is openAIs web frontend for several of their GPT-Models. The technology is just GPT and transformers, the open source alternatives are just not as advanced as the GPT4 model yet. It might change with current trajectory, mainly because OpenAI keeps nerfing it.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  The technology is in the hardware/software synergy.

inductive_magic 3y ago

OpenAI builds an LLM and an api-interface to that model. The design of abstractions, prompt engineering, custom fine-tunes and software engineering required to ship a valuable application on top of that interface counts as "building an app" in my book.

bfeynman 3y ago
how can you finetune gpt-4 or 3.5? The shell/wrapper around a request to open AI is not any worthy piece of software, It'd be more impressive to vend those services. Otherwise it's basically just a few scripts.
- thethimble 3y ago
  Google has recently announced infrastructure for fine tuning and RLHF on their pre trained foundation models. I imagine all cloud providers will follow suit. https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/docs/generative-ai/models/tune-models https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/docs/generative-ai/models...
- inductive_magic 3y ago
  As your wording implies, finetuning is restricted to the smaller models, i.e. babbage, curie etc. You can generate the training data for this with 3.5 and 4 and tune smaller models with the resulting data. For lots of tasks, this results in robust results, which btw are also faster than 3.5 turbo.
icapybara 3y ago
The LLM _is_ the product. Everything else in the stack is window dressing. I don’t think OpenAI’s contribution should be so understated- they built a technology that was considered science fiction just a few years ago. They deserve all the credit for the “AI”.
- ngngngng 3y ago
  Good luck building a moat when 95% of your app is just calling the API everyone else has access to.
  - inductive_magic 3y ago
    100% of all existing code is just calling an OS-API that everyone else has access to. That's just nonsense
    - nsxwolf 3y ago
      Yes, but also, come on now.
      - grrrate 3y ago
        [dead]
      - inductive_magic 3y ago
        I mean, it refutes the argument. Everyone has access to the internet, to conv nets, to C/python/pandas/TCP, you name it. Yet, nobody would seriously argue that one can not build a moat with products based on those stacks for the reason that everyone else has access to the same stack. Its just not an argument, at all. We can now write software that interprets language under the hood (to some degree). The value propositions enabled by this change in the world are so vast, and partly so complex - to make absolute statements like "yeah but you don't control the model, so anyone can copy your solution" seems out of touch to me. What subset of technology doesn't get reverse engineered? Either this applies almost nowhere (because every piece of tech that an engineer can get their hands on is effectively open), or everywhere.
Zvez 3y ago
while this is technically correct, difference is that your product won't survive without openai at this point. If you need the model quality openai provides you are stuck and your product can just disappear. Because llm is core building block, irreplaceable one.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Building a product that relies 100% on a single external vendor is taking a huge risk. So many companies have been burned by this in the past that it's amazing anyone doesn't see it as a risky thing. So I have to believe that the people making these products are intending to make as much cash as possible up front and aren't aiming for a long-term thing.
  - cudgy 3y ago
    Use the facade pattern so it’s easier to swap out if needed.
JohnFen 3y ago
> required to ship a valuable application on top of that interface counts as "building an app" in my book. It's certainly building an app. It's not building an AI app, though. It's building a front-end to an existing AI application.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
Of course it is an app, but ultimately it is just a frontend.
throwaway292939 3y ago
It's just like building a Facebook app back in the day Replace social media / graph APIs with the ones from OpenAI

thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago

There is a lot of engineering work and reasoning to make sufficiently complex prompts. Depending on your business case, the 4096 tokens given to you have to go quite far. Vector embeddings are not "easy" to work with. Trying to splat together a range of techniques to craft a good prompt is hard™. Adding in Actions (e.g. using headless browsers to open pages etc) is also pioneering territory. Sucks that OpenAI currently has the market, but there is still plenty of reasons to develop on top of it.

killingtime74 3y ago

Wait so when I'm using postgres I'm just designing a front end for it? Maybe I'm just designing a front end for my CPU?