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Waiting for some camera company to release a camera that provides the original image hash that is signed by an embedded cert on the camera. I assume going forwa

by 2008marketcrash 3y ago

Waiting for some camera company to release a camera that provides the original image hash that is signed by an embedded cert on the camera. I assume going forward, that'd be one of the only ways to use photos as evidence. That there'd be a proof of originality.

circuit10 3y ago
You could just take a photo of a screen, unless there’s extra technology to prevent that
- ustolemyname 3y ago
  Few people have screens as high resolution as even a mediocre phone camera. Before someone brings up future screen tech, there are additional reasons that's not a trivial workaround. Additionally there's a higher benefit to having high resolution cameras which have a wide field of view and the user may want to zoom in on the physical data vs a screen where the zooming happens in software.
- tornato7 3y ago
  Likely would have to be a depth camera. iPhone is in a good position to do this with the rear-facing Lidar and front facing IR projector, plus onboard secure element chips.
seydor 3y ago
I d rather we never use photos as evidence again. Will be a net benefit to freedom
- qingcharles 3y ago
  Photos will be used as evidence in court in the same way they are used now. If you don't stipulate to the authenticity of the photo then the photographer must come to court and state under penalty of perjury that the photo is an original that they took and that it has not been modified. Of course, nothing stops anyone from lying under oath. Police do it every day.
wmf 3y ago
https://www.sony.eu/presscentre/news/sony-unlocks-in-camera-forgery-proof-technology https://www.sony.eu/presscentre/news/sony-unlocks-in-camera-...
eichin 3y ago
Nikon and Canon both have "image authentication system" features; unfortunately the easiest to find articles are about them being broken... back in 2011.
jedberg 3y ago
If the certificate is on the camera than it would be breakable. But I can see cameras with cell chips inside and auto-upload to an authentication service with the location verified by cellular triangulation.
- chongli 3y ago
  Breakable in principle but difficult in practice. Put a TPM chip in there and it’s going to be quite difficult to extract the signing keys.
- 93po 3y ago
  Until you find a way to emulate the photo sensor itself and feed it pre-rendered AI garbage that it thinks is live footage. A tangent but I think journalism is going to start to actually mean something. Historically I think it's been most problematic bullshit, and especially in the past few decades it's pure propaganda and greed and profit. But in an age where we can't trust literally anything we see, it's the reputation of specific humans we'll trust, and we'll have to trust that if they say they saw something, it was real. We'll start to see "real" journalism.
  - mrandish 3y ago
    I agree with your point and would add that it's been this way for decades prior to AI. Many are focusing on the fact that AI is recently making it easier, cheaper and faster to do hard-to-detect, high-fidelity photo/video manipulation. However, another equally important change from AI is widespread awareness that such manipulation is not only possible but relatively easy. Previously, such manipulation was possible via manual methods requiring time and unique skill which limited it to highly motivated, organized adversaries and it was much more useful because most people weren't aware it could be done. IMHO, all the AI examples we're now seeing bemoaned in the media as signs of future manipulation are, in fact, rapidly diminishing the effective value of such deception.

circuit10 3y ago

You could just take a photo of a screen, unless there’s extra technology to prevent that

ustolemyname 3y ago
Few people have screens as high resolution as even a mediocre phone camera. Before someone brings up future screen tech, there are additional reasons that's not a trivial workaround. Additionally there's a higher benefit to having high resolution cameras which have a wide field of view and the user may want to zoom in on the physical data vs a screen where the zooming happens in software.
tornato7 3y ago
Likely would have to be a depth camera. iPhone is in a good position to do this with the rear-facing Lidar and front facing IR projector, plus onboard secure element chips.

seydor 3y ago

I d rather we never use photos as evidence again. Will be a net benefit to freedom

qingcharles 3y ago
Photos will be used as evidence in court in the same way they are used now. If you don't stipulate to the authenticity of the photo then the photographer must come to court and state under penalty of perjury that the photo is an original that they took and that it has not been modified. Of course, nothing stops anyone from lying under oath. Police do it every day.

wmf 3y ago

https://www.sony.eu/presscentre/news/sony-unlocks-in-camera-forgery-proof-technology https://www.sony.eu/presscentre/news/sony-unlocks-in-camera-...

eichin 3y ago

Nikon and Canon both have "image authentication system" features; unfortunately the easiest to find articles are about them being broken... back in 2011.

jedberg 3y ago

If the certificate is on the camera than it would be breakable. But I can see cameras with cell chips inside and auto-upload to an authentication service with the location verified by cellular triangulation.

chongli 3y ago
Breakable in principle but difficult in practice. Put a TPM chip in there and it’s going to be quite difficult to extract the signing keys.
93po 3y ago
Until you find a way to emulate the photo sensor itself and feed it pre-rendered AI garbage that it thinks is live footage. A tangent but I think journalism is going to start to actually mean something. Historically I think it's been most problematic bullshit, and especially in the past few decades it's pure propaganda and greed and profit. But in an age where we can't trust literally anything we see, it's the reputation of specific humans we'll trust, and we'll have to trust that if they say they saw something, it was real. We'll start to see "real" journalism.
- mrandish 3y ago
  I agree with your point and would add that it's been this way for decades prior to AI. Many are focusing on the fact that AI is recently making it easier, cheaper and faster to do hard-to-detect, high-fidelity photo/video manipulation. However, another equally important change from AI is widespread awareness that such manipulation is not only possible but relatively easy. Previously, such manipulation was possible via manual methods requiring time and unique skill which limited it to highly motivated, organized adversaries and it was much more useful because most people weren't aware it could be done. IMHO, all the AI examples we're now seeing bemoaned in the media as signs of future manipulation are, in fact, rapidly diminishing the effective value of such deception.