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I feel this is a shortsighted reaction when most languages have had something like this happen, repeatedly even. C and C++ have had the exact same issues with

I feel this is a shortsighted reaction when most languages have had something like this happen, repeatedly even. C and C++ have had the exact same issues with utterly grinding down attempted contributors, public sniping between committee members, etc. I'm not trying to minimize this because it deeply needs to be addressed, but using one language or another is a relative decision, and between Rust and C++ I still think C++ is more dysfunctional, Go doesn't really attempt to be a "community" led project in the first place, Java drama ended up in the Supreme Court, etc.

neilv 3y ago
But the energy we could spend on, say, ramping up and migrating to Rust, at the moment, could instead be put into ramping up in doing something with LLM. That's the example I personally have in mind, but other individuals and organizations can usually think of multiple options for investing their resources, what directions they could head towards, etc.
- vore 3y ago
  Rust and LLMs are very different domains... If you are writing systems software the choice is between Rust and C, not Rust and ChatGPT. This comment gives me the impression of someone using Rust to follow a fad, not because it is something that is useful to them.
  - neilv 3y ago
    I guess many might've read it that way, so I'll try to clarify. I can already do systems programming in C or C++. If I'm investing in Rust, to do systems programming in some ways better, then I want to restore confidence that it's not already becoming dysfunctional in leadership. Fads come and go, some fad-followers hop jobs every 12-18 months (and really don't have to care much whether a fad pans out, because they'll just hop on the next one), but I'm trying to think strategically and longer-term about what I invest in.
    - vore 3y ago
      Thanks for the clarification, though I do have to emphasize that a lot of Rust adopters are those who are adopting it as a replacement for a systems language, and saying you're switching from Rust to working on LLMs is a bit of a non-sequitur and not an actual choice for a lot of people who use Rust. I think the reality is though that you can’t really get away from dysfunctional organization even falling back on other languages (or maybe you prefer the C++ flavor of organizational dysfunction), but I do think with Rust you see it a lot more in the public eye.

neilv 3y ago

But the energy we could spend on, say, ramping up and migrating to Rust, at the moment, could instead be put into ramping up in doing something with LLM. That's the example I personally have in mind, but other individuals and organizations can usually think of multiple options for investing their resources, what directions they could head towards, etc.

vore 3y ago
Rust and LLMs are very different domains... If you are writing systems software the choice is between Rust and C, not Rust and ChatGPT. This comment gives me the impression of someone using Rust to follow a fad, not because it is something that is useful to them.
- neilv 3y ago
  I guess many might've read it that way, so I'll try to clarify. I can already do systems programming in C or C++. If I'm investing in Rust, to do systems programming in some ways better, then I want to restore confidence that it's not already becoming dysfunctional in leadership. Fads come and go, some fad-followers hop jobs every 12-18 months (and really don't have to care much whether a fad pans out, because they'll just hop on the next one), but I'm trying to think strategically and longer-term about what I invest in.
  - vore 3y ago
    Thanks for the clarification, though I do have to emphasize that a lot of Rust adopters are those who are adopting it as a replacement for a systems language, and saying you're switching from Rust to working on LLMs is a bit of a non-sequitur and not an actual choice for a lot of people who use Rust. I think the reality is though that you can’t really get away from dysfunctional organization even falling back on other languages (or maybe you prefer the C++ flavor of organizational dysfunction), but I do think with Rust you see it a lot more in the public eye.