6 ms·

Stop Being a Junior

18 points by jack335 3y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
I feel this article is not very good. It focuses too much on externalities. One thing that I often find is that there is too much self doubt and impostor syndrome in the modern generation of kids and I think that is warranted. A big part of why they feel that way is because they haven't really thought how a computer works, haven't build large enough systems, haven't written enough code to understand why Uncle Bob and Clean Code are bad solutions. Once they start looking at hard skills instead of managing up or other things at the office, that's when I feel they will think and act like a senior. There is no way of shortcutting it. You have to pay your dues in terms of understanding why certain code is bad and certain code is good and that only comes with writing largish systems and testing your theories. Also build stuff outside of web dev. If you feel like a junior or have impostor syndrome, it might well be because you are one.
- thunkle 3y ago
  Why are uncle Bob and clean code bad solutions?
  - ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5NrevFtbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5NrevFtbU
lucasyvas 3y ago
Alright this is an OK-ish motivational piece to never let anyone put you in a box I guess... > In fact, I was just a step below architect in a quarter-billion dollar organization only 4 months after graduating from university. Oh, come on, Kent. Really? Can we qualify this guy's blog as spam yet?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- exclusiv 3y ago
  I agree. Spoofing your capabilities and getting a higher title doesn't make one an architect or near architect lol.
dasil003 3y ago
> Welcome to the software development world" only to find out they've been working as a software developer for over a year and a half already. Ugh, you think 18 months is a long time? Programming is hard, just the technical part takes a lot of reps, but navigating the long term implications and social/business interfaces are what make the difference between an effective tech lead and an NNPP. Here’s a tip: stop worrying about labels. Spend a decade obsessively honing your craft. Think from first principles. Ask difficult questions. Move around and find the smartest programmers you can to learn from. Confidence comes from hard-won abilities, not playing mind games with yourself about titles.
- topikk 3y ago
  I'm glad I wasn't alone in feeling frustrated while reading this article. I just passed the year mark after switching careers; the clouds are parting and I'm beginning to tackle more complex tasks with my ever-growing experience and wisdom, but "What do senior developers do in your company? Do that instead of the things junior developers do. That's it." is absurd. If you're getting bored with the menial tasks that you're being given, ask your boss if they think you're ready to handle more complex work -- jumping in the middle of projects way over your head in an effort to pretend you aren't a junior dev is foolish.
- anotherlove 3y ago
  [dead]
- exclusiv 3y ago
  Seriously, that jumped out at me. You do not know anything after a year and a half. You are a junior developer. Nobody is that special. Also, there is a real risk to learning if you "stop being a junior". Namely, the posers don't raise their hand and ask for help when they hit a wall, waste a ton of time drowning with things that senior engineers can figure out in 10 minutes, and are scared of learning from senior teammates as it requires them to be vulnerable in front of them. The ones faking it tend to be insecure and not fully dedicated to their craft, but their title first.
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sibit 3y ago
This is just like, my opinion, man but I think titles are just food for our egos. I think developers should focus on two things: 1) doing work that you enjoy. 2) take a good long hard honest look at yourself and determine your value, then find an employer that agrees. The only advice from the article I liked was: > Even if it's just "hey, can I come sit in on that meeting?" Take notes for yourself of anything you're unfamiliar with and ask about those things later. I love sitting in on meetings just to take notes. Recently some Sr Developers and our DBA set up a weekly meeting to discuss overhauling our database schema and I asked to sit in. Even though most of what I heard aligned with what I already knew I still got a lot of value in just listening to other people's opinions. The DBA was a fountain of knowledge when it came to the nuances of using SQL Server.
- yladiz 3y ago
  > This is just like, my opinion, man but I think titles are just food for our egos. Yes, but that doesn’t mean that we should ignore the importance of what the title signifies. Titles may not be so important to you, but they are to others and they also help signify how others should treat you. If you were a very senior engineer, I would expect that you act very differently than a junior engineer, and the easiest way to understand what expectations I should have for you is your title.
  - sibit 3y ago
    I will concede that saying "titles are just food for our egos" is a bit blunt and that there's usually a difference in expectations between Jr Devs and Sr Devs at most companies.
austin-cheney 3y ago
I would also add: Don’t be an expert beginner. At some point you have to focus on solving real business problems as opposed to mastery of tool usage or configuration.
nathias 3y ago
If you are a good junior you already know most of the things you will know as a senior, the difference is you don't know that you know.
- sibit 3y ago
  I agree. Show me a Jr Dev who has a general understanding of how computers work, understands data structures, some algorithms, and maybe even a bit of experience with a low/mid level language and I'll gladly hitch my wagon to them.
sublinear 3y ago
> I felt like I had to leave the company I was with to get up to the level I wanted to be with. I probably could have managed it with the company I was already with if I had been more patient. Ah there it is. Nothing is more junior than seeking this advice.
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  Bingo lol. In this industry you leave and come back for a free L+2. It has been this way for decades. Author needs to get with the times.
azangru 3y ago
I think you crashed his site y'all.
fedeb95 3y ago
not being junior doesn't mean being updated with any new, fast, shiny technology. Means having the right attitude toward the job and the matter. That, only experience gives. One year and a half, depending on the person, might be enough, but not for all.
p0w3n3d 3y ago
Sometimes you get to be a junior in a company that uses A,B,C but then you upgrade, move to another company, but they say that to be a senior, you're lacking your expertise in D,E,F. What then? Just jump 'til it fits?
- anotherlove 3y ago
  No, that's just another way of a company saying to you your face doesn't fit with this promotion/role. And why that is depends on who is hiring you. Most of my experience in tech has been working for non-technical managers who think a Senior position is one of a liaison officer between management and computing in general. Most of the time I read comments about the ancient wizardry and the important soft skills you need to have as a Senior just makes me wonder how much crap these people have been fed by their superiors.
qprofyeh 3y ago
There are more direct ways to convey a message. Article reads like humblebragging...

18 points by jack335 3y ago

I feel this article is not very good. It focuses too much on externalities. One thing that I often find is that there is too much self doubt and impostor syndrome in the modern generation of kids and I think that is warranted. A big part of why they feel that way is because they haven't really thought how a computer works, haven't build large enough systems, haven't written enough code to understand why Uncle Bob and Clean Code are bad solutions. Once they start looking at hard skills instead of managing up or other things at the office, that's when I feel they will think and act like a senior. There is no way of shortcutting it. You have to pay your dues in terms of understanding why certain code is bad and certain code is good and that only comes with writing largish systems and testing your theories. Also build stuff outside of web dev. If you feel like a junior or have impostor syndrome, it might well be because you are one.

thunkle 3y ago
Why are uncle Bob and clean code bad solutions?
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5NrevFtbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5NrevFtbU

lucasyvas 3y ago

Alright this is an OK-ish motivational piece to never let anyone put you in a box I guess... > In fact, I was just a step below architect in a quarter-billion dollar organization only 4 months after graduating from university. Oh, come on, Kent. Really? Can we qualify this guy's blog as spam yet?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
exclusiv 3y ago
I agree. Spoofing your capabilities and getting a higher title doesn't make one an architect or near architect lol.

dasil003 3y ago

> Welcome to the software development world" only to find out they've been working as a software developer for over a year and a half already. Ugh, you think 18 months is a long time? Programming is hard, just the technical part takes a lot of reps, but navigating the long term implications and social/business interfaces are what make the difference between an effective tech lead and an NNPP. Here’s a tip: stop worrying about labels. Spend a decade obsessively honing your craft. Think from first principles. Ask difficult questions. Move around and find the smartest programmers you can to learn from. Confidence comes from hard-won abilities, not playing mind games with yourself about titles.

topikk 3y ago
I'm glad I wasn't alone in feeling frustrated while reading this article. I just passed the year mark after switching careers; the clouds are parting and I'm beginning to tackle more complex tasks with my ever-growing experience and wisdom, but "What do senior developers do in your company? Do that instead of the things junior developers do. That's it." is absurd. If you're getting bored with the menial tasks that you're being given, ask your boss if they think you're ready to handle more complex work -- jumping in the middle of projects way over your head in an effort to pretend you aren't a junior dev is foolish.
anotherlove 3y ago
[dead]
exclusiv 3y ago
Seriously, that jumped out at me. You do not know anything after a year and a half. You are a junior developer. Nobody is that special. Also, there is a real risk to learning if you "stop being a junior". Namely, the posers don't raise their hand and ask for help when they hit a wall, waste a ton of time drowning with things that senior engineers can figure out in 10 minutes, and are scared of learning from senior teammates as it requires them to be vulnerable in front of them. The ones faking it tend to be insecure and not fully dedicated to their craft, but their title first.
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sibit 3y ago

This is just like, my opinion, man but I think titles are just food for our egos. I think developers should focus on two things: 1) doing work that you enjoy. 2) take a good long hard honest look at yourself and determine your value, then find an employer that agrees. The only advice from the article I liked was: > Even if it's just "hey, can I come sit in on that meeting?" Take notes for yourself of anything you're unfamiliar with and ask about those things later. I love sitting in on meetings just to take notes. Recently some Sr Developers and our DBA set up a weekly meeting to discuss overhauling our database schema and I asked to sit in. Even though most of what I heard aligned with what I already knew I still got a lot of value in just listening to other people's opinions. The DBA was a fountain of knowledge when it came to the nuances of using SQL Server.

yladiz 3y ago
> This is just like, my opinion, man but I think titles are just food for our egos. Yes, but that doesn’t mean that we should ignore the importance of what the title signifies. Titles may not be so important to you, but they are to others and they also help signify how others should treat you. If you were a very senior engineer, I would expect that you act very differently than a junior engineer, and the easiest way to understand what expectations I should have for you is your title.
- sibit 3y ago
  I will concede that saying "titles are just food for our egos" is a bit blunt and that there's usually a difference in expectations between Jr Devs and Sr Devs at most companies.

austin-cheney 3y ago

I would also add: Don’t be an expert beginner. At some point you have to focus on solving real business problems as opposed to mastery of tool usage or configuration.

nathias 3y ago

If you are a good junior you already know most of the things you will know as a senior, the difference is you don't know that you know.

sibit 3y ago
I agree. Show me a Jr Dev who has a general understanding of how computers work, understands data structures, some algorithms, and maybe even a bit of experience with a low/mid level language and I'll gladly hitch my wagon to them.

sublinear 3y ago

> I felt like I had to leave the company I was with to get up to the level I wanted to be with. I probably could have managed it with the company I was already with if I had been more patient. Ah there it is. Nothing is more junior than seeking this advice.

wildrhythms 3y ago
Bingo lol. In this industry you leave and come back for a free L+2. It has been this way for decades. Author needs to get with the times.

azangru 3y ago

I think you crashed his site y'all.

fedeb95 3y ago

not being junior doesn't mean being updated with any new, fast, shiny technology. Means having the right attitude toward the job and the matter. That, only experience gives. One year and a half, depending on the person, might be enough, but not for all.

p0w3n3d 3y ago

Sometimes you get to be a junior in a company that uses A,B,C but then you upgrade, move to another company, but they say that to be a senior, you're lacking your expertise in D,E,F. What then? Just jump 'til it fits?

anotherlove 3y ago
No, that's just another way of a company saying to you your face doesn't fit with this promotion/role. And why that is depends on who is hiring you. Most of my experience in tech has been working for non-technical managers who think a Senior position is one of a liaison officer between management and computing in general. Most of the time I read comments about the ancient wizardry and the important soft skills you need to have as a Senior just makes me wonder how much crap these people have been fed by their superiors.

qprofyeh 3y ago

There are more direct ways to convey a message. Article reads like humblebragging...