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"Overhearing something you don't like between strangers you are not involved with is not harassment" 1. It definitely can be (by legal, social, etc definitions

"Overhearing something you don't like between strangers you are not involved with is not harassment" 1. It definitely can be (by legal, social, etc definitions), and it's very silly to claim otherwise in any form of generality. Like if I overhear you talking about what you want to do to my breasts or whatever, congrats, you've harassed me even if you didn't mean me to hear. I don't remember the particular jokes here enough to give a more particularized view, but your statement is pretty general. In any case, 2. To the degree it isn't harassment, it can also be considered creation of a hostile work environment (even at a conference), which is also actionable and has been for many decades (ie this is not some new recent thing). The most common form you will find is probably exactly this: people making inappropriate jokes loud enough for others to hear.

jemmyw 3y ago
You're most likely correct. I personally think the lines have been drawn in a way that catches out people who are not being malicious, making some people over sensitive to basic human dialogue, and still not properly going after those who are actually malicious. And it's actually making us mix less with colleagues. Maybe the ends justify it, feels rather cold to me.
TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
When do you expect this process to show positive results? Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too? Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change. I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy.
- DannyBee 3y ago
  "When do you expect this process to show positive results?" Given that "Mad Men" is no longer considered standard acceptable workplace behavior, uh, i think it did already? These are not new laws, they started in ~1964 (in the US), and have shown positive results pretty quickly? "Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too?" Yes, actually, but i'm sure you know this. You act as if this is all some horrible form of oppression - sexual harassment law is ... not particularly hard to avoid violating. There are certainly edge cases, but like, it's really not that hard to avoid sexually harassing your coworkers. You'd have a stronger argument about PC and more general "acceptable workplace behavior" or something. "Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change." Uh, you think that sexual harassment law does not enjoy broad support? Okay? "I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy." In the workplace, so far you have turned out pretty wrong, and this "bout of lunacy" has been going on for well over half a century in the US, and longer elsewhere. So maybe you should reconsider.

jemmyw 3y ago

You're most likely correct. I personally think the lines have been drawn in a way that catches out people who are not being malicious, making some people over sensitive to basic human dialogue, and still not properly going after those who are actually malicious. And it's actually making us mix less with colleagues. Maybe the ends justify it, feels rather cold to me.

TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago

When do you expect this process to show positive results? Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too? Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change. I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy.

DannyBee 3y ago
"When do you expect this process to show positive results?" Given that "Mad Men" is no longer considered standard acceptable workplace behavior, uh, i think it did already? These are not new laws, they started in ~1964 (in the US), and have shown positive results pretty quickly? "Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too?" Yes, actually, but i'm sure you know this. You act as if this is all some horrible form of oppression - sexual harassment law is ... not particularly hard to avoid violating. There are certainly edge cases, but like, it's really not that hard to avoid sexually harassing your coworkers. You'd have a stronger argument about PC and more general "acceptable workplace behavior" or something. "Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change." Uh, you think that sexual harassment law does not enjoy broad support? Okay? "I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy." In the workplace, so far you have turned out pretty wrong, and this "bout of lunacy" has been going on for well over half a century in the US, and longer elsewhere. So maybe you should reconsider.