5 ms·

The point here is that what is considered sexual harassment is itself political. I can hear all kinds of overtly racist and sexist statements from my female co

by blq10 3y ago

The point here is that what is considered sexual harassment is itself political. I can hear all kinds of overtly racist and sexist statements from my female colleagues, but because they are women, and their comments are directed at white folks and male folks, they are totally safe from this sort of retribution. (Ex. "I didn't want to move here because it's eyeroll so white") Meanwhile, an (admittedly juvenile) set of jokes gets some people fired.

1827163 3y ago
Yes, I have received harassment from women when I was younger. And there was very little that could be done about it, people would not take it seriously. That includes being sexually assaulted in high school, it happened because I was so eccentric it attracted "bad" girls. But as a guy, if I did one tiny thing wrong I would be labelled all sorts of nasty things. It could be as little as being slightly too friendly to a woman somewhere, because I am really happy, having a really good day, and I would be treated horribly. This is a widespread rampant problem in society. It's being seen as "harassment" when it's coming from men. But not so when it's coming from women.
- marcinzm 3y ago
  You've just described what most every woman I have talked to says their life is like including massive fear of retaliation, fairly common harassment (including from strangers in public), etc. The whole reason for the metoo movement is because the massive fear and retaliation for speaking up.
  - blq10 3y ago
    Is there fear of retaliation when the reaction is almost universally media fawning for the bravery of speaking up, and importantly, has been for 20 ish years?
    - marcinzm 3y ago
      Yes. Look someone actually asked people and put together the surveys in a single place that is just a quick Google search away. https://inspiredelearning.com/blog/sexual-harassment-in-the-workplace-statistics/ https://inspiredelearning.com/blog/sexual-harassment-in-the-...
      - 1827163 3y ago
        Yes, the retaliation might be from other men seeing the complaint as frivolous. And in this hypersensitive society we live in now, that complaint may very well be frivolous.
        marcinzm 3y ago
        I bring in data and you bring up random hypotheticals to dismiss it out of hand since you don't like what the data says. Which I think says everything someone needs to know about this debate and the participants.
        1827163 3y ago
        I don't trust the data, even if it comes from academia, as it's very likely to have a pro-feminist bias. I need to know the methodology used, and also other sources of data to cross check it against. The bias in the coverage of these issues is absolutely shocking, and has been occurring for a long time indeed. Yes, radical feminists are behind this, they have even taken over academia, and it's taboo to speak out against it, if you do, you will find yourself up against a mob. I wonder if there is an evolutionary basis for such sexual conformity in humans. Because I'm trying to find an explanation for what's going on. How so many lives are being destroyed over trivial sexual transgressions, things that are really trifles and cause no real harm other than discomfort or unpleasantness. Of course serious transgressions such as rape are not trivial at all. Or is it really down to our society instead?
        blq10 3y ago
        These are not random hypotheticals. Which is why we cannot reasonably call your listicle that doesn't give proper citations or even hyperlinks "data". 55% of all EEOC complaints were about "retaliation", that's not 55% of victims, as the headline shows. That's 55% of all reports. Which means there are definitionally more reports of retaliation than reports of incidents! Additionally, you have stuff like this: https://www.the74million.org/article/ed-department-sex-discrimination-complaints-18000-civil-rights/ https://www.the74million.org/article/ed-department-sex-discr...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
orra 3y ago
> I can hear all kinds of overtly racist and sexist statements from my female colleagues, but because they are women, and their comments are directed at white folks and male folks, they are totally safe from this sort of retribution. (Ex. "I didn't want to move here because it's eyeroll so white") That's pervasive, but it's not appropriate either. This is why I said low key unprofessionalism should initially be dealt with by apologies and training. > Meanwhile, an (admittedly juvenile) set of jokes gets some people fired. I said that was an overreaction. But it's a different employer, who were acting due to publicity.

by blq10 3y ago

1827163 3y ago

Yes, I have received harassment from women when I was younger. And there was very little that could be done about it, people would not take it seriously. That includes being sexually assaulted in high school, it happened because I was so eccentric it attracted "bad" girls. But as a guy, if I did one tiny thing wrong I would be labelled all sorts of nasty things. It could be as little as being slightly too friendly to a woman somewhere, because I am really happy, having a really good day, and I would be treated horribly. This is a widespread rampant problem in society. It's being seen as "harassment" when it's coming from men. But not so when it's coming from women.

marcinzm 3y ago
You've just described what most every woman I have talked to says their life is like including massive fear of retaliation, fairly common harassment (including from strangers in public), etc. The whole reason for the metoo movement is because the massive fear and retaliation for speaking up.
- blq10 3y ago
  Is there fear of retaliation when the reaction is almost universally media fawning for the bravery of speaking up, and importantly, has been for 20 ish years?
  - marcinzm 3y ago
    Yes. Look someone actually asked people and put together the surveys in a single place that is just a quick Google search away. https://inspiredelearning.com/blog/sexual-harassment-in-the-workplace-statistics/ https://inspiredelearning.com/blog/sexual-harassment-in-the-...
    - 1827163 3y ago
      Yes, the retaliation might be from other men seeing the complaint as frivolous. And in this hypersensitive society we live in now, that complaint may very well be frivolous.
      - marcinzm 3y ago
        I bring in data and you bring up random hypotheticals to dismiss it out of hand since you don't like what the data says. Which I think says everything someone needs to know about this debate and the participants.
        1827163 3y ago
        I don't trust the data, even if it comes from academia, as it's very likely to have a pro-feminist bias. I need to know the methodology used, and also other sources of data to cross check it against. The bias in the coverage of these issues is absolutely shocking, and has been occurring for a long time indeed. Yes, radical feminists are behind this, they have even taken over academia, and it's taboo to speak out against it, if you do, you will find yourself up against a mob. I wonder if there is an evolutionary basis for such sexual conformity in humans. Because I'm trying to find an explanation for what's going on. How so many lives are being destroyed over trivial sexual transgressions, things that are really trifles and cause no real harm other than discomfort or unpleasantness. Of course serious transgressions such as rape are not trivial at all. Or is it really down to our society instead?
        blq10 3y ago
        These are not random hypotheticals. Which is why we cannot reasonably call your listicle that doesn't give proper citations or even hyperlinks "data". 55% of all EEOC complaints were about "retaliation", that's not 55% of victims, as the headline shows. That's 55% of all reports. Which means there are definitionally more reports of retaliation than reports of incidents! Additionally, you have stuff like this: https://www.the74million.org/article/ed-department-sex-discrimination-complaints-18000-civil-rights/ https://www.the74million.org/article/ed-department-sex-discr...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

orra 3y ago

> I can hear all kinds of overtly racist and sexist statements from my female colleagues, but because they are women, and their comments are directed at white folks and male folks, they are totally safe from this sort of retribution. (Ex. "I didn't want to move here because it's eyeroll so white") That's pervasive, but it's not appropriate either. This is why I said low key unprofessionalism should initially be dealt with by apologies and training. > Meanwhile, an (admittedly juvenile) set of jokes gets some people fired. I said that was an overreaction. But it's a different employer, who were acting due to publicity.