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Not like my opinion matters at all here, but everyone sucks here. - The Rust project should get their act together to avoid miscommunication - Bloggers like f

Not like my opinion matters at all here, but everyone sucks here. - The Rust project should get their act together to avoid miscommunication - Bloggers like fasterthanlime should probably not say anything at all - Core team members like JT resigning over miscommunication is a huge mistake - JeanHyde should've opened a dialog with project leads like Josh to understand the situation Everyone involved needs to get on a zoom call or sit in the same room and work this out. Of course we want JeanHyde to present at RustConf. Of course we want folks like JT on the team. But no - we live in an era where instead of talking to each other, we just tweet and make passive-aggressive blog posts. The fallout of this whole dumb shitshow: - JT left - Josh is stepping back - JeanHyde is leaving - Introspection is not getting funded NOBODY WANTS THIS. JT and Josh both had the authority and power to fix these issues. I get people are upset and offended, but airing all this dirty laundry in public has led to a disaster for the project. The whole thing could've been easily rectified if JeanHyde and JT worked together with Josh to come to a happy conclusion. But nope, everyone leaves the project or steps down because that's somehow the right answer?

HelloNurse 3y ago
You seem pretty knowledgeable about Rust politics. Who are the toxic assholes that JeanHeyd Meneide should have contacted to "work this out" after being insulted, with the likely outcome of suffering further harm? It seems a very strange expectation. Leaving this kind of dumpster fire is the obvious right answer for almost everyone involved, to limit current and potential damage of all sorts. Do you just feel entitled to a "good" (or at least functioning) Rust community, or are you seriously blaming JeanHeyd Meneide and Shepherd's Oasis for deciding that they have been offended enough?
- jkelleyrtp 3y ago
  I’m working with the same set of blogposts, hackmds, and tweets as everyone else. It seems that JeanHyde went public with their experience instead of opening a dialogue with their advocate (JT) or core team member (Josh). JeanHyde says as much in their original post - assuming that the Rust Project had some sort of due process, JH didn’t want to legitimize that process. As Josh’s post points out, there is no legitimate due process and the Rust project is actively a mess right now. > suffering further harm This type of language is actively muddying the conversation. Nobody suffered and nobody was harmed here. JH might’ve been upset and confused, but there was no “torture” to “suffer.” The only damage here is everyone leaving the project. In an alternative world, this would’ve been solved in one 30 minute meeting and nobody would’ve heard a thing. > Do you feel entitled… Yes, I do. I’ve payed my dues within the rust community, I’ve bet my career on Rust, I’m building a company that’s actively working to improve Rust. The project is a once-in-generation chance to replace C/C++ and I personally don’t think leadership is taking that seriously. It doesn’t help when speakers like JH choose to go public instead of trying to smooth things over in a sensible manner. I get it, JH expected some sort of legitimate leadership, but now with all the context, I don’t see how you could believe anyone leaving the project or canceling efforts is 1) good or 2) going to solve any problems in the long term.
dogleash 3y ago
Maybe it can't be solved behind closed doors because that's where the problems are? Rust's governance has always been a secret backroom and reliance on soft power to make the real decisions. I don't know how well documented it is, but there are at least two posts acknowledging it https://without.boats/blog/if-you-can-keep-it/ https://without.boats/blog/if-you-can-keep-it/ https://fasterthanli.me/articles/rust-the-wrong-people-are-resigning https://fasterthanli.me/articles/rust-the-wrong-people-are-r... If this could be fixed quietly, I expect it would have been. But it looks like they had just finished using the back channels to make sure nobody gets the impression rust core thought ThePHD's research was worth perusing.

HelloNurse 3y ago

You seem pretty knowledgeable about Rust politics. Who are the toxic assholes that JeanHeyd Meneide should have contacted to "work this out" after being insulted, with the likely outcome of suffering further harm? It seems a very strange expectation. Leaving this kind of dumpster fire is the obvious right answer for almost everyone involved, to limit current and potential damage of all sorts. Do you just feel entitled to a "good" (or at least functioning) Rust community, or are you seriously blaming JeanHeyd Meneide and Shepherd's Oasis for deciding that they have been offended enough?

jkelleyrtp 3y ago
I’m working with the same set of blogposts, hackmds, and tweets as everyone else. It seems that JeanHyde went public with their experience instead of opening a dialogue with their advocate (JT) or core team member (Josh). JeanHyde says as much in their original post - assuming that the Rust Project had some sort of due process, JH didn’t want to legitimize that process. As Josh’s post points out, there is no legitimate due process and the Rust project is actively a mess right now. > suffering further harm This type of language is actively muddying the conversation. Nobody suffered and nobody was harmed here. JH might’ve been upset and confused, but there was no “torture” to “suffer.” The only damage here is everyone leaving the project. In an alternative world, this would’ve been solved in one 30 minute meeting and nobody would’ve heard a thing. > Do you feel entitled… Yes, I do. I’ve payed my dues within the rust community, I’ve bet my career on Rust, I’m building a company that’s actively working to improve Rust. The project is a once-in-generation chance to replace C/C++ and I personally don’t think leadership is taking that seriously. It doesn’t help when speakers like JH choose to go public instead of trying to smooth things over in a sensible manner. I get it, JH expected some sort of legitimate leadership, but now with all the context, I don’t see how you could believe anyone leaving the project or canceling efforts is 1) good or 2) going to solve any problems in the long term.

dogleash 3y ago

Maybe it can't be solved behind closed doors because that's where the problems are? Rust's governance has always been a secret backroom and reliance on soft power to make the real decisions. I don't know how well documented it is, but there are at least two posts acknowledging it https://without.boats/blog/if-you-can-keep-it/ https://without.boats/blog/if-you-can-keep-it/ https://fasterthanli.me/articles/rust-the-wrong-people-are-resigning https://fasterthanli.me/articles/rust-the-wrong-people-are-r... If this could be fixed quietly, I expect it would have been. But it looks like they had just finished using the back channels to make sure nobody gets the impression rust core thought ThePHD's research was worth perusing.