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I saw the writing on the wall and chose not to invest any time into adopting Rust after observing various happenings like this <https://github.com/rust-lang/rus

I saw the writing on the wall and chose not to invest any time into adopting Rust after observing various happenings like this <https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25585 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25585> PR. Their supposed dedication to being "nice" has ever been bound to degenerate into behind-the-sceenes ankle-biting.

orra 3y ago
Really? That's a perfectly reasonable change, that you object to. It's okay for a project to be more welcoming to women. Let's not forget women are underrepresented in programming.
- anon-3988 3y ago
  Yes, it does help women to get into science or programming to have an inclusive terminology (i have no evidence to back this up). But consider this, how much good does this actually do versus the time and effort it takes to make it? If I am drinking Coke every day, does it matter if I spend time deciding if I should shake the Coke first to release the gas which presumably is more healthy? Isn't the more important issue here is that I am drinking Coke in the first place? Similarly, there are way, way more important issue in this area that this kind of useless activity is actively undermining the cause. There is an opportunity cost here; to everything. Human attention is not limitless, I can only care about as many topics/subjects that I am biologically capable of. If I am discussing or wasting my time writing this comment, I could be doing something else.
  - Mikhail_K 3y ago
    "Yes, it does help women to get into science or programming to have an inclusive terminology (i have no evidence to back this up)." Noone does.
  - ChrisSD 3y ago
    Personally I think what people do in their free time is up to them, so long as it isn't hurting anyone. I don't think it's right for you to police that.
  - orra 3y ago
    > how much good does this actually do versus the time and effort it takes to make it? It was a few lines of text. GP has spent more time complaining about the change, than the effort to make the change.
- blq10 3y ago
  [flagged]
twic 3y ago
I find stuff like that as annoying as you, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the current debacle. The current thing is purely caused by good old fashioned power politics between factions with different technical ideas. There is no "woke" angle at all.
- Mikhail_K 3y ago
  I think there is. If they had normal process for openly discussing disagreements and making decisions, instead of shady rumour- and backstabbing-based one, none of this would have happened.
- becausepc 3y ago
  The “woke” angle was raised later on. JT brought up it up: “It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. When I saw an organization that not only could act so coldly to an expert in the field, but also to one who was a vocal critic of Rust's lack of diversity, it was hard not to see the additional context. Systems have memory and biases. If the people that make up the system don't work to fight against these, they are perpetuated. As my buddy Aman pointed out, the context that this would have also been the first keynote by a person of color at RustConf should not be lost here.” https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/ https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/ I would have bet that if JeanHeyd was white, the issue would die out by now.

orra 3y ago

Really? That's a perfectly reasonable change, that you object to. It's okay for a project to be more welcoming to women. Let's not forget women are underrepresented in programming.

anon-3988 3y ago
Yes, it does help women to get into science or programming to have an inclusive terminology (i have no evidence to back this up). But consider this, how much good does this actually do versus the time and effort it takes to make it? If I am drinking Coke every day, does it matter if I spend time deciding if I should shake the Coke first to release the gas which presumably is more healthy? Isn't the more important issue here is that I am drinking Coke in the first place? Similarly, there are way, way more important issue in this area that this kind of useless activity is actively undermining the cause. There is an opportunity cost here; to everything. Human attention is not limitless, I can only care about as many topics/subjects that I am biologically capable of. If I am discussing or wasting my time writing this comment, I could be doing something else.
- Mikhail_K 3y ago
  "Yes, it does help women to get into science or programming to have an inclusive terminology (i have no evidence to back this up)." Noone does.
- ChrisSD 3y ago
  Personally I think what people do in their free time is up to them, so long as it isn't hurting anyone. I don't think it's right for you to police that.
- orra 3y ago
  > how much good does this actually do versus the time and effort it takes to make it? It was a few lines of text. GP has spent more time complaining about the change, than the effort to make the change.
blq10 3y ago
[flagged]

twic 3y ago

I find stuff like that as annoying as you, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the current debacle. The current thing is purely caused by good old fashioned power politics between factions with different technical ideas. There is no "woke" angle at all.

Mikhail_K 3y ago
I think there is. If they had normal process for openly discussing disagreements and making decisions, instead of shady rumour- and backstabbing-based one, none of this would have happened.
becausepc 3y ago
The “woke” angle was raised later on. JT brought up it up: “It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. When I saw an organization that not only could act so coldly to an expert in the field, but also to one who was a vocal critic of Rust's lack of diversity, it was hard not to see the additional context. Systems have memory and biases. If the people that make up the system don't work to fight against these, they are perpetuated. As my buddy Aman pointed out, the context that this would have also been the first keynote by a person of color at RustConf should not be lost here.” https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/ https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/ I would have bet that if JeanHeyd was white, the issue would die out by now.