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I mean what is big deal- the government has a right to lawful intercept. Fix FISA and warrant ruberstamping instead of pearl clutching about the tool used to a

I mean what is big deal- the government has a right to lawful intercept. Fix FISA and warrant ruberstamping instead of pearl clutching about the tool used to achieve it.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> warrant rubberstamping Is this an assumption? We don't have much information into this process so it surprises me that we jump to the conclusion that they're a rubber stamp. Is there any supporting evidence for this assertion?
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  Snowden files was quite detailed on how the NSA programs targeted at US were barely having any kind of judicial scrutiny and FISA was rubberstamping. I don't see any reason to believe that the situation has improved or that in the other branches of sigint employing agencies it is better.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    > Snowden files was quite detailed Where was this detailed? We would need to know how many requests the FISA courts receive and how many they reject and we would also need to know these numbers for the in-the-open legal system. Even still- if investigators are good at their job they aren't going to give the judge flimsy requests that will get rejected. I know for example that police often err on the side of caution and request warrants where a warrant might not be required because it's better than being wrong and tainting the entire case.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      > We would need to know how many requests the FISA courts receive and how many they reject We aren't entirely without numbers "1,856. That's the number of applications presented to the court by the government last year. And it's also the number that the court approved: 100 percent success." (https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/191226106/fisa-court-appears-to-be-rubberstamp-for-government-requests https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/191226106/fisa-court-appears-...)
upofadown 3y ago
This sort of capability is most useful for off the books surveillance. So no warrant required. Any parallel construction happens later. If you know what your targets are doing in detail then you can just get very lucky. As in: We randomly pulled over this car for a routine traffic stop. Imagine our surprise when we discovered that the car was full of the evidence of a serious crime!

I mean what is big deal- the government has a right to lawful intercept. Fix FISA and warrant ruberstamping instead of pearl clutching about the tool used to achieve it.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

> warrant rubberstamping Is this an assumption? We don't have much information into this process so it surprises me that we jump to the conclusion that they're a rubber stamp. Is there any supporting evidence for this assertion?

ReptileMan 3y ago
Snowden files was quite detailed on how the NSA programs targeted at US were barely having any kind of judicial scrutiny and FISA was rubberstamping. I don't see any reason to believe that the situation has improved or that in the other branches of sigint employing agencies it is better.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  > Snowden files was quite detailed Where was this detailed? We would need to know how many requests the FISA courts receive and how many they reject and we would also need to know these numbers for the in-the-open legal system. Even still- if investigators are good at their job they aren't going to give the judge flimsy requests that will get rejected. I know for example that police often err on the side of caution and request warrants where a warrant might not be required because it's better than being wrong and tainting the entire case.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > We would need to know how many requests the FISA courts receive and how many they reject We aren't entirely without numbers "1,856. That's the number of applications presented to the court by the government last year. And it's also the number that the court approved: 100 percent success." (https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/191226106/fisa-court-appears-to-be-rubberstamp-for-government-requests https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/191226106/fisa-court-appears-...)

upofadown 3y ago

This sort of capability is most useful for off the books surveillance. So no warrant required. Any parallel construction happens later. If you know what your targets are doing in detail then you can just get very lucky. As in: We randomly pulled over this car for a routine traffic stop. Imagine our surprise when we discovered that the car was full of the evidence of a serious crime!