3 ms·

I am not sure why are you bringing enterprise software into the discussion. Despite being the most popular form of employment for "programmers" it has always be

by lhorn 18y ago

I am not sure why are you bringing enterprise software into the discussion. Despite being the most popular form of employment for "programmers" it has always been the absolutely lowest form of life in a software ecosystem and, therefore, should be ignored and left out of any intelligent discussion about programming. In the 90s it was Visual Basic, now it's Java and C#, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what most of us consider to be discussion worthy.

jwilliams 18y ago
> Despite being the most popular form of employment for "programmers" it has always been the absolutely lowest form of life in a software ecosystem It just runs our banks, hospitals, governments... Much better to solely focus on those that write kernels, device drivers and filesystems?
- lhorn 18y ago
  So? Despite being useful, what's so interesting about CRUD programming for the enterprise? I've been there, I've had my share of dealing with coworkers that openly admit that they haven't touched a single book since graduation 10 years ago and they see no reason why would they want to. That's the kind of programmers this industry attracts, and that's the kind of software it builds. What's so interesting about it? Why even bother mentioning these numerous java/C# jobs? My ex-wife with zero programming experience has trained herself in less than a month to run a simple SQL queries in Visual basic and blast results in a grid control on a form, so did thousands of ex-taxi drivers in late 90s. So?
  - mixmax 18y ago
    I think how interesting it is depends on your interest. If you are heavily into programming, as it seems you are, I can understand that SQL queries seem trivial and boring. If your interest is elsewhere programming is often just a tool used to create the interesting stuff. Whether that is usability, design, getting people to interact in new ways, launching rockets or automatically turning off your garden lights when your computer powers down. Believe it or not there are interesting discussions to be had about other things than programming.
    - jmtulloss 18y ago
      But this article isn't about those things.
  - jwilliams 18y ago
    > My ex-wife with zero programming experience has trained herself in less than a month to run a simple SQL queries in Visual basic and blast results in a grid control on a form, so did thousands of ex-taxi drivers in late 90s. So? To be honest, I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make is. At best it's somewhat of an Ad Hominem attack.
    - lhorn 18y ago
      I am arguing against this line: "People often write in higher level languages because they want lots of bad code fast." Even if this is true, it's true only in enterprise software environment where code quality has never been terribly important. Therefore it can't really be an argument against higher level languages in the context of a typical HN discussion. Makes sense?
      - rglullis 18y ago
        No, it doesn't. I'm in no way trolling here, but if you think about it, most of the guys working on startups are also producing lots of bad code fast. The only difference is that most of them are aware of it, and will improve the code based on the requirements from the market.

by lhorn 18y ago

jwilliams 18y ago

> Despite being the most popular form of employment for "programmers" it has always been the absolutely lowest form of life in a software ecosystem It just runs our banks, hospitals, governments... Much better to solely focus on those that write kernels, device drivers and filesystems?

lhorn 18y ago
So? Despite being useful, what's so interesting about CRUD programming for the enterprise? I've been there, I've had my share of dealing with coworkers that openly admit that they haven't touched a single book since graduation 10 years ago and they see no reason why would they want to. That's the kind of programmers this industry attracts, and that's the kind of software it builds. What's so interesting about it? Why even bother mentioning these numerous java/C# jobs? My ex-wife with zero programming experience has trained herself in less than a month to run a simple SQL queries in Visual basic and blast results in a grid control on a form, so did thousands of ex-taxi drivers in late 90s. So?
- mixmax 18y ago
  I think how interesting it is depends on your interest. If you are heavily into programming, as it seems you are, I can understand that SQL queries seem trivial and boring. If your interest is elsewhere programming is often just a tool used to create the interesting stuff. Whether that is usability, design, getting people to interact in new ways, launching rockets or automatically turning off your garden lights when your computer powers down. Believe it or not there are interesting discussions to be had about other things than programming.
  - jmtulloss 18y ago
    But this article isn't about those things.
- jwilliams 18y ago
  > My ex-wife with zero programming experience has trained herself in less than a month to run a simple SQL queries in Visual basic and blast results in a grid control on a form, so did thousands of ex-taxi drivers in late 90s. So? To be honest, I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make is. At best it's somewhat of an Ad Hominem attack.
  - lhorn 18y ago
    I am arguing against this line: "People often write in higher level languages because they want lots of bad code fast." Even if this is true, it's true only in enterprise software environment where code quality has never been terribly important. Therefore it can't really be an argument against higher level languages in the context of a typical HN discussion. Makes sense?
    - rglullis 18y ago
      No, it doesn't. I'm in no way trolling here, but if you think about it, most of the guys working on startups are also producing lots of bad code fast. The only difference is that most of them are aware of it, and will improve the code based on the requirements from the market.