5 ms·

Lucky we don’t live in a country where you have to prove something is legal before you do it then…

jojobas 3y ago
Mostly because if you are caught selling something illegal you're in for some serious trouble, unlike overseas sellers in selective jurisdictions.
- AmericanChopper 3y ago
  I think it has something more to do with the presumption of innocence
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Presumption of innocence only works as long as there's enough deterrence in case you're proven guilty and enough resources to pursue credible suspicions.
    - AmericanChopper 3y ago
      Works to do what? The only purpose of the presumption of innocence is to protect an essential freedom of every democratic society. The only thing it’s ever supposed to do it protect you from the government, and it works to that effect very well, under all circumstances.
      - jojobas 3y ago
        Works to maintain a society with minimal breaches to anyone's rights. Without the government's ability to pursue suspected criminals and prove them guilty you get to El Salvador kind of situation pretty quickly and your freedoms become lesser of your worries.
        AmericanChopper 3y ago
        It’s not clear why you think the presumption of innocence is one of El Salvador’s problems, or why you think the presumption of guilt would solve them.
        jojobas 3y ago
        Presumption on innocence in a legal sense is a reflection of the reality that an absolute minority of the population are criminals, and a random person approaching you in the street is not out to rob you. This assumption doesn't work that way in Haiti or El Salvador - you have to allow for hostile intentions of strangers or you'll get burned. In a more benign plane, presumption of innocence allows you to pay strangers upfront and expect delivery of what you ordered. You can only do that because there are stiff consequences for misusing this trust.
        AmericanChopper 3y ago
        You’re not talking about the presumption of innocence, or any concept relating to the legal system. You’re talking about the _social_ consequences of living somewhere with poor safety and low trust. The presumption of innocence in a legal sense is the principle that any person accused of a crime is innocent until they are proven guilty. It is the most fundamental principle in any system of justice, and I still have no idea why you think it is the cause of any problems in El Salvador, or why you think implementing a presumption of guilt would change anything.

Mostly because if you are caught selling something illegal you're in for some serious trouble, unlike overseas sellers in selective jurisdictions.

AmericanChopper 3y ago
I think it has something more to do with the presumption of innocence
- jojobas 3y ago
  Presumption of innocence only works as long as there's enough deterrence in case you're proven guilty and enough resources to pursue credible suspicions.
  - AmericanChopper 3y ago
    Works to do what? The only purpose of the presumption of innocence is to protect an essential freedom of every democratic society. The only thing it’s ever supposed to do it protect you from the government, and it works to that effect very well, under all circumstances.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      Works to maintain a society with minimal breaches to anyone's rights. Without the government's ability to pursue suspected criminals and prove them guilty you get to El Salvador kind of situation pretty quickly and your freedoms become lesser of your worries.
      - AmericanChopper 3y ago
        It’s not clear why you think the presumption of innocence is one of El Salvador’s problems, or why you think the presumption of guilt would solve them.
        jojobas 3y ago
        Presumption on innocence in a legal sense is a reflection of the reality that an absolute minority of the population are criminals, and a random person approaching you in the street is not out to rob you. This assumption doesn't work that way in Haiti or El Salvador - you have to allow for hostile intentions of strangers or you'll get burned. In a more benign plane, presumption of innocence allows you to pay strangers upfront and expect delivery of what you ordered. You can only do that because there are stiff consequences for misusing this trust.
        AmericanChopper 3y ago
        You’re not talking about the presumption of innocence, or any concept relating to the legal system. You’re talking about the _social_ consequences of living somewhere with poor safety and low trust. The presumption of innocence in a legal sense is the principle that any person accused of a crime is innocent until they are proven guilty. It is the most fundamental principle in any system of justice, and I still have no idea why you think it is the cause of any problems in El Salvador, or why you think implementing a presumption of guilt would change anything.