4 ms·

How does that not violate attorney client privilege?

by rcme 3y ago

djur 3y ago
Attorney-client privilege applies to communication for the purpose of obtaining legal advice and it typically excludes anything already disclosed to a third party, like the bank in this case.
- rcme 3y ago
  Aren’t you disclosing your emails to third parties by using something like Gmail?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bheadmaster 3y ago
    Yes, you are. That's a good argument for using PGP/GPG/some other secure communication protocol.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      That leaks the subject line (and other metadata), so I'd hardly call PGP over Email a secure communication protocol. You have to do something like use random UUIDs as subjects so you can track conversations without leaking what they're about. It's pretty good privacy for the message body, with pretty shit usability if you want security.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Of course you are, and of course Gmail sends the fed everything they asked for. There was one email provider that didn't, remember what happened to it?
    - than3 3y ago
      They had to shut down after being bankrupted by USG?
majormajor 3y ago
This seems to be much more about getting the fact of "this is the account he's paying you from" vs a privileged solicitation of legal advice.
- rcme 3y ago
  What if you were to encode a message to your lawyer via your payments. Would that make it privileged? To me, a private transaction between parties subject to confidential privilege should also be subject to privilege.
  - clucas 3y ago
    In your world, wouldn't every tax cheat just conceal money by routing it through their law firm? Then the government can never find out how much money you have because it would be illegal to subpoena the firm, right?
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      (that world exists right now, and not really for tax concealment but that possibility comes with it, iykyk and you're about to know)
    - rcme 3y ago
      I don’t believe attorney client privilege applies if the lawyer is actively helping break the law.
  - mandevil 3y ago
    The presence of a non-lawyer, non-client in a conversation makes it non-privileged. That is, if someone who is not privileged is part of the talk then it can't have privilege. Is your bank also your lawyer or a client of your lawyer? If not, then the presence of the third party in the transaction kills your privilege claim. And having your bank share your lawyer with you might potentially open up conflict of interest questions, since your legal rights and your banks might diverge. In-house council for a company get away with this (for internal communications) because they are lawyers for the company (right up until your interests diverge from that of the company, at which point you really want your own lawyer), but for your bank this stops being true. Basically, you are thinking about law like an engineer, not a lawyer.

How does that not violate attorney client privilege?

by rcme 3y ago

How does that not violate attorney client privilege?

djur 3y ago

Attorney-client privilege applies to communication for the purpose of obtaining legal advice and it typically excludes anything already disclosed to a third party, like the bank in this case.

rcme 3y ago
Aren’t you disclosing your emails to third parties by using something like Gmail?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bheadmaster 3y ago
  Yes, you are. That's a good argument for using PGP/GPG/some other secure communication protocol.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
    That leaks the subject line (and other metadata), so I'd hardly call PGP over Email a secure communication protocol. You have to do something like use random UUIDs as subjects so you can track conversations without leaking what they're about. It's pretty good privacy for the message body, with pretty shit usability if you want security.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Of course you are, and of course Gmail sends the fed everything they asked for. There was one email provider that didn't, remember what happened to it?
  - than3 3y ago
    They had to shut down after being bankrupted by USG?

majormajor 3y ago

This seems to be much more about getting the fact of "this is the account he's paying you from" vs a privileged solicitation of legal advice.

rcme 3y ago
What if you were to encode a message to your lawyer via your payments. Would that make it privileged? To me, a private transaction between parties subject to confidential privilege should also be subject to privilege.
- clucas 3y ago
  In your world, wouldn't every tax cheat just conceal money by routing it through their law firm? Then the government can never find out how much money you have because it would be illegal to subpoena the firm, right?
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    (that world exists right now, and not really for tax concealment but that possibility comes with it, iykyk and you're about to know)
  - rcme 3y ago
    I don’t believe attorney client privilege applies if the lawyer is actively helping break the law.
- mandevil 3y ago
  The presence of a non-lawyer, non-client in a conversation makes it non-privileged. That is, if someone who is not privileged is part of the talk then it can't have privilege. Is your bank also your lawyer or a client of your lawyer? If not, then the presence of the third party in the transaction kills your privilege claim. And having your bank share your lawyer with you might potentially open up conflict of interest questions, since your legal rights and your banks might diverge. In-house council for a company get away with this (for internal communications) because they are lawyers for the company (right up until your interests diverge from that of the company, at which point you really want your own lawyer), but for your bank this stops being true. Basically, you are thinking about law like an engineer, not a lawyer.