5 ms·

Odd because I have been detained at CBP checkpoints inside the US without any sort of reasonable suspicion.

by throwaway742 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nirav72 3y ago
Are you a U.S citizen or permanent resident? If not, then the CBP has more flexibility on who they detain.
- throwaway09223 3y ago
  Resident status can't be determined until after detaining someone. Your comment is self-contradictory.
  - nirav72 3y ago
    Not sure how I'm contradictory. If you're a permanent resident, therefore you have a green card. That is a form of documentation you have to show at the CBP counter before they determine if you're lawful alien or U.S citizen. The line for U.S Citizens and permanent residence is the same. Every port of entry in the U.S has a sign that literally says - "U.S Citizens Or Permanent Residence". All other visa holders have a separate queue and detention usually starts after they've determined if a person has a valid visa or not or is a U.S citizen/permanent resident (green card)
    - throwaway09223 3y ago
      We're not discussing ports, we're discussing so-called "interior checkpoints." The comment you're responding to said: "Odd because I have been detained at CBP checkpoints inside the US" You cannot stop a person inside the US and request they produce any kind of identification without first detaining them. The CBP detains everyone. If you prove you're a citizen, you can leave after being detained. This is different than everywhere else in the country. It is the fundamental civil rights violation which is being objected to above.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - kelnos 3y ago
        > If you prove you're a citizen How does that even work? I don't know anyone who regularly carries around their passport, or some other proof of citizenship. A driver's license or state ID isn't enough to establish citizenship, or even legal immigration status. (Though I suppose they could cross-reference your identity, based on the state-issued ID, with whatever databases have that information.)
        throwaway742 3y ago
        They just ask most people if they are a citizen and if they look white enough CBP waives them past. If they don't CBP pulls them into secondary where they have a sniffer dog that alerts on their car allowing them to search the car and it's occupants at which point they will check their ID and run it through their system. Personally I refused to answer, set the parking brake, turned the car off, and removed the key. They told me to go to secondary and I just didn't say anything and kept looking forward. Eventually enough traffic backed up behind me on the freeway they just waived me through to get traffic moving again. I know the courts have found it to be legal, but I don't care. I'm not going to comply. If no one complied they wouldn't be able to get away with this shit. Unfortunately most people don't care.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        It’s basically this meme in real life. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart
        spiralpolitik 3y ago
        Lying to a federal investigator is an offense. It's usually how the feds get you if they can't make anything else stick (see Martha Stewart). Usually with the border patrol stops a vehicle they ask if there are any non-citizens in the vehicle. If you lie at this point and they don't believe you it would likely give cause to investigate further. So either tell the truth or shut up. Given that any documented not-citizens are supposed to carry their permanent resident card or passport with them at all times then the assumption is that any not-citizens are doing just that so can easily prove their status. Not everyone does and in recent years they've been policing this a lot harder than they used to and you can find yourself in hot water if you encounter the wrong officer (most cases you will get a very stern talking to). So if you aren't carrying a permanent resident card or passport then the assumption is that you are either a citizen or undocumented. How hard they push to find out which depends on the bias of the officer making the stop.
    - rnk 3y ago
      I lived in Arizona, they have these checkpoints everywhere, many miles from the border. They just stop everyone and harass whomever they want. This is not "at the border", this is 30 miles up the freeway. They questioned my friend from India once, insisting he was pretending to be from that country, he was really from Mexico they said.
Spooky23 3y ago
You should file a complaint with the inspector general.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  I'm quite certain they're aware; it's very much a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_in... > The United States Supreme Court ruled that Border Patrol agents may stop a vehicle at fixed checkpoints for brief questioning of its occupants even if there is no reason to believe that the particular vehicle contains illegal people. The Court further held that Border Patrol agents "have wide discretion" to refer motorists selectively to a secondary inspection area for additional brief questioning.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    That’s not detention. It’s the same operating theory as DWI or Registration checkpoints.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      I think SCOTUS was wrong to permit those, too, but they're significantly different. Registration and DWI checkpoints rely on something outwardly visible/demonstrable; a sticker or signs of intoxication. There's no outward sign of citizenship, nor are citizens required to carry proof of it.
      - Spooky23 3y ago
        I agree with you. I take issue with the bad faith interpretation by the ACLU that has so misinformed the public. It undermines their mission.

Odd because I have been detained at CBP checkpoints inside the US without any sort of reasonable suspicion.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nirav72 3y ago

Are you a U.S citizen or permanent resident? If not, then the CBP has more flexibility on who they detain.

throwaway09223 3y ago
Resident status can't be determined until after detaining someone. Your comment is self-contradictory.
- nirav72 3y ago
  Not sure how I'm contradictory. If you're a permanent resident, therefore you have a green card. That is a form of documentation you have to show at the CBP counter before they determine if you're lawful alien or U.S citizen. The line for U.S Citizens and permanent residence is the same. Every port of entry in the U.S has a sign that literally says - "U.S Citizens Or Permanent Residence". All other visa holders have a separate queue and detention usually starts after they've determined if a person has a valid visa or not or is a U.S citizen/permanent resident (green card)
  - throwaway09223 3y ago
    We're not discussing ports, we're discussing so-called "interior checkpoints." The comment you're responding to said: "Odd because I have been detained at CBP checkpoints inside the US" You cannot stop a person inside the US and request they produce any kind of identification without first detaining them. The CBP detains everyone. If you prove you're a citizen, you can leave after being detained. This is different than everywhere else in the country. It is the fundamental civil rights violation which is being objected to above.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - kelnos 3y ago
      > If you prove you're a citizen How does that even work? I don't know anyone who regularly carries around their passport, or some other proof of citizenship. A driver's license or state ID isn't enough to establish citizenship, or even legal immigration status. (Though I suppose they could cross-reference your identity, based on the state-issued ID, with whatever databases have that information.)
      - throwaway742 3y ago
        They just ask most people if they are a citizen and if they look white enough CBP waives them past. If they don't CBP pulls them into secondary where they have a sniffer dog that alerts on their car allowing them to search the car and it's occupants at which point they will check their ID and run it through their system. Personally I refused to answer, set the parking brake, turned the car off, and removed the key. They told me to go to secondary and I just didn't say anything and kept looking forward. Eventually enough traffic backed up behind me on the freeway they just waived me through to get traffic moving again. I know the courts have found it to be legal, but I don't care. I'm not going to comply. If no one complied they wouldn't be able to get away with this shit. Unfortunately most people don't care.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        It’s basically this meme in real life. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart
      - spiralpolitik 3y ago
        Lying to a federal investigator is an offense. It's usually how the feds get you if they can't make anything else stick (see Martha Stewart). Usually with the border patrol stops a vehicle they ask if there are any non-citizens in the vehicle. If you lie at this point and they don't believe you it would likely give cause to investigate further. So either tell the truth or shut up. Given that any documented not-citizens are supposed to carry their permanent resident card or passport with them at all times then the assumption is that any not-citizens are doing just that so can easily prove their status. Not everyone does and in recent years they've been policing this a lot harder than they used to and you can find yourself in hot water if you encounter the wrong officer (most cases you will get a very stern talking to). So if you aren't carrying a permanent resident card or passport then the assumption is that you are either a citizen or undocumented. How hard they push to find out which depends on the bias of the officer making the stop.
  - rnk 3y ago
    I lived in Arizona, they have these checkpoints everywhere, many miles from the border. They just stop everyone and harass whomever they want. This is not "at the border", this is 30 miles up the freeway. They questioned my friend from India once, insisting he was pretending to be from that country, he was really from Mexico they said.

Spooky23 3y ago

You should file a complaint with the inspector general.

ceejayoz 3y ago
I'm quite certain they're aware; it's very much a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_in... > The United States Supreme Court ruled that Border Patrol agents may stop a vehicle at fixed checkpoints for brief questioning of its occupants even if there is no reason to believe that the particular vehicle contains illegal people. The Court further held that Border Patrol agents "have wide discretion" to refer motorists selectively to a secondary inspection area for additional brief questioning.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  That’s not detention. It’s the same operating theory as DWI or Registration checkpoints.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    I think SCOTUS was wrong to permit those, too, but they're significantly different. Registration and DWI checkpoints rely on something outwardly visible/demonstrable; a sticker or signs of intoxication. There's no outward sign of citizenship, nor are citizens required to carry proof of it.
    - Spooky23 3y ago
      I agree with you. I take issue with the bad faith interpretation by the ACLU that has so misinformed the public. It undermines their mission.