5 ms·

I think it's just an attempt to stop "grey-market" imports if I had to guess and this old lens just got swept up in the dragnet. They're probably (ab-?)using eb

by sottol 3y ago

I think it's just an attempt to stop "grey-market" imports if I had to guess and this old lens just got swept up in the dragnet. They're probably (ab-?)using ebay's IP protection systems though. Manufacturers sometimes have vastly different pricing based on region and want to protect profits, to the point that most (all?) manufacturers will not service "gray-market imported" lenses in the US. So large 3rd-party grey market importers like "E-Infinity" even offer their own warranty.

NoRelToEmber 3y ago
"Grey-market" means perfectly legal imports, just without the manufacturer's blessing. Even just calling them "grey" is a gross corporate invasion on ownership rights.
- sottol 3y ago
  Agree, thus the scare-quotes.
- someotherperson 3y ago
  To me, at least, "grey" indicates that the manufacturer support for updates or warranty is in a "grey" area, since a lot of that is localised to where it was originally purchased from.
  - xp84 3y ago
    And you’re super right that’s a good definition, but GP has a great point that if “black market” means it’s stolen merchandise, the very term grey market implies “kind of stolen” which is gross when it’s just “consumers using globalization in exactly the same way we do, in a way that slightly reduces our total margin dollars from the theoretical maximum”
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "black market” means it’s stolen merchandise" Black market is also drugs, guns, ... any trade not official allowed. And stolen goods often get sold legal via ebay, craigslist etc.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Even that should be illegal. People move. All the times.
- prawn 3y ago
  If they can take advantage of global disparities to manufacture something, we should be able to take advantage of those disparities when buying.
  - kazinator 3y ago
    > take advantage of global disparities to manufacture something Like ashen-faced children, slaving in a sooty factory, under a leaden sky. What is grey-market again? Brilliantly stated insight, by the way.
    - mcv 3y ago
      I'm all for banning the import of products created through child labour, slavery, or thoroughly unhealthy working conditions. But they're not banning that. They're just protecting corporate profits.
  - rodgerd 3y ago
    No, no, no, that's not how it works. Globalisation is for throwing you in the street if you won't work for Vietnamese wages, not for letting you buy goods at Vietnamese prices.
- wldcordeiro 3y ago
  It's kind of disgusting seeing people even entertain the notion that this is right. It's corporations bullying people and controlling things they have no right controlling.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jojobas 3y ago
The thing is it's very hard to tell whether imported purportedly second-hand goods are authentic or not. Ebay could be held liable for facilitating counterfeit imports and that's what they came up with. Some people report that after providing receipts to the rights owner they got unblocked. Also see Blazer v Ebay, where it appears that Ebay (in 2017) was not really jumping to take down items on a whim.
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago
  > The thing is it's very hard to tell whether imported purportedly second-hand goods are authentic or not. It's also very hard to tell whether genuine goods contain illegal lead paint. When Nikon and Apple products get pulled from shelves based on an unsubstantiated email from my lawyer, I might show some sympathy to their crying wolf about counterfeits and stomping over consumer rights.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Ever heard of MSDSs? Pretty sure they have to provide assurance for everything they sell, including "everything causes cancer" for California.
    - NoRelToEmber 3y ago
      Oh sure, but are the goods on the shelves the same as what they provided assurance for? Just as someone may have swapped my Nikon lens for a counterfeit before I tried to sell it, someone may have swapped Nikon's or Apple's products on their way to retail, or after they left the factory, for lower-quality ones. If they were found to contain lead or anything harmful, the stores could be liable for facilitating this or that crime - the courts ruled the police do not have a duty to protect, but apparently retailers do, and must act with the presumption of guilt on the most spurious of allegations. Sure this will make commerce impossible, but we had no issue making commerce impossible for individuals, did we? We just treat them as fly-by-night Chinese importers, even when they're based in countries that very much put people in jail for counterfeiting and eagerly cooperate with various IP prosecutions. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

by sottol 3y ago

NoRelToEmber 3y ago

"Grey-market" means perfectly legal imports, just without the manufacturer's blessing. Even just calling them "grey" is a gross corporate invasion on ownership rights.

sottol 3y ago
Agree, thus the scare-quotes.
someotherperson 3y ago
To me, at least, "grey" indicates that the manufacturer support for updates or warranty is in a "grey" area, since a lot of that is localised to where it was originally purchased from.
- xp84 3y ago
  And you’re super right that’s a good definition, but GP has a great point that if “black market” means it’s stolen merchandise, the very term grey market implies “kind of stolen” which is gross when it’s just “consumers using globalization in exactly the same way we do, in a way that slightly reduces our total margin dollars from the theoretical maximum”
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "black market” means it’s stolen merchandise" Black market is also drugs, guns, ... any trade not official allowed. And stolen goods often get sold legal via ebay, craigslist etc.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Even that should be illegal. People move. All the times.
prawn 3y ago
If they can take advantage of global disparities to manufacture something, we should be able to take advantage of those disparities when buying.
- kazinator 3y ago
  > take advantage of global disparities to manufacture something Like ashen-faced children, slaving in a sooty factory, under a leaden sky. What is grey-market again? Brilliantly stated insight, by the way.
  - mcv 3y ago
    I'm all for banning the import of products created through child labour, slavery, or thoroughly unhealthy working conditions. But they're not banning that. They're just protecting corporate profits.
- rodgerd 3y ago
  No, no, no, that's not how it works. Globalisation is for throwing you in the street if you won't work for Vietnamese wages, not for letting you buy goods at Vietnamese prices.
wldcordeiro 3y ago
It's kind of disgusting seeing people even entertain the notion that this is right. It's corporations bullying people and controlling things they have no right controlling.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

jojobas 3y ago

The thing is it's very hard to tell whether imported purportedly second-hand goods are authentic or not. Ebay could be held liable for facilitating counterfeit imports and that's what they came up with. Some people report that after providing receipts to the rights owner they got unblocked. Also see Blazer v Ebay, where it appears that Ebay (in 2017) was not really jumping to take down items on a whim.

NoRelToEmber 3y ago
> The thing is it's very hard to tell whether imported purportedly second-hand goods are authentic or not. It's also very hard to tell whether genuine goods contain illegal lead paint. When Nikon and Apple products get pulled from shelves based on an unsubstantiated email from my lawyer, I might show some sympathy to their crying wolf about counterfeits and stomping over consumer rights.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Ever heard of MSDSs? Pretty sure they have to provide assurance for everything they sell, including "everything causes cancer" for California.
  - NoRelToEmber 3y ago
    Oh sure, but are the goods on the shelves the same as what they provided assurance for? Just as someone may have swapped my Nikon lens for a counterfeit before I tried to sell it, someone may have swapped Nikon's or Apple's products on their way to retail, or after they left the factory, for lower-quality ones. If they were found to contain lead or anything harmful, the stores could be liable for facilitating this or that crime - the courts ruled the police do not have a duty to protect, but apparently retailers do, and must act with the presumption of guilt on the most spurious of allegations. Sure this will make commerce impossible, but we had no issue making commerce impossible for individuals, did we? We just treat them as fly-by-night Chinese importers, even when they're based in countries that very much put people in jail for counterfeiting and eagerly cooperate with various IP prosecutions. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.