4 ms·

That includes airports as well so it's defacto the entire US

RajT88 3y ago
I guess it's 100 miles from any "external boundary" as well as "points of entry", but not "100 miles from points of entry". https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone But then there's also this: > In practice, Border Patrol agents routinely ignore or misunderstand the limits of their legal authority in the course of individual stops, resulting in violations of the constitutional rights of innocent people. These problems are compounded by inadequate training for Border Patrol agents, a lack of oversight by CBP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and the consistent failure of CBP to hold agents accountable for abuse. No matter what CBP officers and Border Patrol agents think, our Constitution applies throughout the United States, including within this “100-mile border zone.”
- ROTMetro 3y ago
  Ignorance of the law is no defense... unless you are a Federal agent violating people's Constitutional rights. America in a nutshell.
gammajmp 3y ago
This isn't true. But, 100 miles from our two borders is incredibly abusive enough.
- rand85632 3y ago
  You’re forgetting the coastlines, near which a large percentage of Americans live.
  - gammajmp 3y ago
    You're right. I meant to say that international airports don't yield a 100 mile radius for the CBP to perform arbitrary stops. Shorelines count; the whole situation is ridiculous.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Spooky23 3y ago
So would you suggest that US Customs not operate at ports of entry? I guess we could go back to 1910 and only import stuff and admit people in coastal cities. Make everyone from Europe fly to JFK on the way to Atlanta.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Operating at ports of entry is fine. Pretending I don't have Fourth Amendment rights on one side of the Customs desk at said ports of entry is not.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    The customs bubble extends beyond the desk. For example, bonded warehouses. What 4th amendment rights have you been stripped of in every coastal area? Show me how the 4th amendment isn’t a thing in Delaware. Don’t spend too much time though - it’s nonsense.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      I said the Fourth Amendment issue is "on one side of the Customs desk at said ports of entry", not "in every coastal area". The idea that you are subject to warrantless seizure of intensely private data on American soil just because you haven't cleared customs yet is a travesty, and I'm glad this ruling has started to address that. As for coastal areas, though, If CBP can stop me away from the border without a warrant and without reasonable suspicion of a crime, that IMO is a Fourth Amendment violation. The ACLU cites specific cases of this happening: https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/14_9_15_cbp_100-mile_rule_final.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/14_9... > Between 2006 and 2010 in the Rochester, NY, area, approximately 300 immigrants with legal status were arrested by Border Patrol agents, then released They also cite the regulations establishing the 100 mile rule: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/287.1 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/287.1 defines "reasonable distance" and "external boundary", and https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357 utilizes those definitions to do things like "without warrant... interrogate any alien or person believed to be an alien as to his right to be or to remain in the United States" and "to board and search for aliens... any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle". It's quite clear that significant parts (all?) of Delaware fall within that claimed jurisdiction.

I guess it's 100 miles from any "external boundary" as well as "points of entry", but not "100 miles from points of entry". https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone But then there's also this: > In practice, Border Patrol agents routinely ignore or misunderstand the limits of their legal authority in the course of individual stops, resulting in violations of the constitutional rights of innocent people. These problems are compounded by inadequate training for Border Patrol agents, a lack of oversight by CBP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and the consistent failure of CBP to hold agents accountable for abuse. No matter what CBP officers and Border Patrol agents think, our Constitution applies throughout the United States, including within this “100-mile border zone.”

ROTMetro 3y ago
Ignorance of the law is no defense... unless you are a Federal agent violating people's Constitutional rights. America in a nutshell.

gammajmp 3y ago

This isn't true. But, 100 miles from our two borders is incredibly abusive enough.

rand85632 3y ago
You’re forgetting the coastlines, near which a large percentage of Americans live.
- gammajmp 3y ago
  You're right. I meant to say that international airports don't yield a 100 mile radius for the CBP to perform arbitrary stops. Shorelines count; the whole situation is ridiculous.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

Spooky23 3y ago

So would you suggest that US Customs not operate at ports of entry? I guess we could go back to 1910 and only import stuff and admit people in coastal cities. Make everyone from Europe fly to JFK on the way to Atlanta.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Operating at ports of entry is fine. Pretending I don't have Fourth Amendment rights on one side of the Customs desk at said ports of entry is not.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  The customs bubble extends beyond the desk. For example, bonded warehouses. What 4th amendment rights have you been stripped of in every coastal area? Show me how the 4th amendment isn’t a thing in Delaware. Don’t spend too much time though - it’s nonsense.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    I said the Fourth Amendment issue is "on one side of the Customs desk at said ports of entry", not "in every coastal area". The idea that you are subject to warrantless seizure of intensely private data on American soil just because you haven't cleared customs yet is a travesty, and I'm glad this ruling has started to address that. As for coastal areas, though, If CBP can stop me away from the border without a warrant and without reasonable suspicion of a crime, that IMO is a Fourth Amendment violation. The ACLU cites specific cases of this happening: https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/14_9_15_cbp_100-mile_rule_final.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/14_9... > Between 2006 and 2010 in the Rochester, NY, area, approximately 300 immigrants with legal status were arrested by Border Patrol agents, then released They also cite the regulations establishing the 100 mile rule: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/287.1 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/287.1 defines "reasonable distance" and "external boundary", and https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357 utilizes those definitions to do things like "without warrant... interrogate any alien or person believed to be an alien as to his right to be or to remain in the United States" and "to board and search for aliens... any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle". It's quite clear that significant parts (all?) of Delaware fall within that claimed jurisdiction.