5 ms·

Your use-case is breaking money transfer laws. Just like every other use-case, it is far less expensive to break money transfer laws with a centralized ledger.

Your use-case is breaking money transfer laws. Just like every other use-case, it is far less expensive to break money transfer laws with a centralized ledger. When you make blockchain money transfer comply with regulations, it becomes more expensive than legal money transfer using centralized ledger. When regulation kicks in (and it will — no government wants its citizens to be fleeced by rogue nations like DPRK and Russia), are there really any legitimate use-cases?

j0hnyl 3y ago
You're assuming it breaks laws, but it doesn't have to, it just makes it easier to do something that's painful to do either by design or due to shitty economic circumstances. In some countries banks pop-up and fold a dime a dozen week to week. Does that mean someone shouldn't be able to send funds to their relatives in a fucked up country?
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  > You're assuming it breaks laws, but it doesn't have to, it just makes it easier to do something that's painful to do either by design or due to shitty economic circumstances Even if your sending end is regulated, at the other end, there has to be a regulated bank. If not, the person who is receiving the "money" could be breaking their country's laws. Cryptocurrencies don't magically change that. Otherwise, PayPal or Venmo could allow accounts to be created for those people in US dollars and do the job even more inexpensively.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago
    > Even if your sending end is regulated, at the other end, there has to be a regulated bank. Are you referring to some specific regulation here?
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      The same regulations that mean you can't cheaply Venmo the person on the other end instead. If Venmo has to follow the law, cryptocurrencies have to follow the law as well. Being your own bank makes you liable to the same regulatory penalties that Venmo has to worry about.
      - no_yoo 3y ago
        Venmo moves dollars and crypto does not Country A: person uses government regulated exchange/on-ramp to acquire crypto or mines it. Country B: person receives crypto and trades it for local currency using a government regulated exchange Which specific laws or regulations are being broken from which specific countries?
        maxerickson 3y ago
        The fantasy is that country A (or B) isn't going to regulate the currency. It doesn't work to tell the government that it isn't currency, they will just patiently explain to you that they decide that.
        no_yoo 3y ago
        If the US wants to classify it as currency I would be happy to not have to pay the capital gains taxes
        lern_too_spel 3y ago
        You also cannot transfer nonmonetary assets cross border without following regulations. Why do you think you have to declare at customs? https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1241/text#toc-idea0e9489fc8f46379f95bb56c8bbbda5 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/124... Did you really think that getting around money laundering laws is as easy as converting to nonmonetary assets before transfer?
        ryan_lane 3y ago
        You have to pay capital gains when buying and selling between real currencies, you know, right?
  - emmelaich 3y ago
    People have been using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala to avoid problems with modern banks and regulations. How regulated is Hawala?
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      ICE is happy to tell you all about enforcements on unlicensed MSBs. https://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/library/reports/cornerstone/cornerstone7-2.pdf https://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/library/reports/cornerstone/...

j0hnyl 3y ago

You're assuming it breaks laws, but it doesn't have to, it just makes it easier to do something that's painful to do either by design or due to shitty economic circumstances. In some countries banks pop-up and fold a dime a dozen week to week. Does that mean someone shouldn't be able to send funds to their relatives in a fucked up country?

lern_too_spel 3y ago
> You're assuming it breaks laws, but it doesn't have to, it just makes it easier to do something that's painful to do either by design or due to shitty economic circumstances Even if your sending end is regulated, at the other end, there has to be a regulated bank. If not, the person who is receiving the "money" could be breaking their country's laws. Cryptocurrencies don't magically change that. Otherwise, PayPal or Venmo could allow accounts to be created for those people in US dollars and do the job even more inexpensively.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago
  > Even if your sending end is regulated, at the other end, there has to be a regulated bank. Are you referring to some specific regulation here?
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    The same regulations that mean you can't cheaply Venmo the person on the other end instead. If Venmo has to follow the law, cryptocurrencies have to follow the law as well. Being your own bank makes you liable to the same regulatory penalties that Venmo has to worry about.
    - no_yoo 3y ago
      Venmo moves dollars and crypto does not Country A: person uses government regulated exchange/on-ramp to acquire crypto or mines it. Country B: person receives crypto and trades it for local currency using a government regulated exchange Which specific laws or regulations are being broken from which specific countries?
      - maxerickson 3y ago
        The fantasy is that country A (or B) isn't going to regulate the currency. It doesn't work to tell the government that it isn't currency, they will just patiently explain to you that they decide that.
        no_yoo 3y ago
        If the US wants to classify it as currency I would be happy to not have to pay the capital gains taxes
        lern_too_spel 3y ago
        You also cannot transfer nonmonetary assets cross border without following regulations. Why do you think you have to declare at customs? https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1241/text#toc-idea0e9489fc8f46379f95bb56c8bbbda5 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/124... Did you really think that getting around money laundering laws is as easy as converting to nonmonetary assets before transfer?
        ryan_lane 3y ago
        You have to pay capital gains when buying and selling between real currencies, you know, right?
- emmelaich 3y ago
  People have been using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala to avoid problems with modern banks and regulations. How regulated is Hawala?
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    ICE is happy to tell you all about enforcements on unlicensed MSBs. https://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/library/reports/cornerstone/cornerstone7-2.pdf https://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/library/reports/cornerstone/...