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Your mistake is in understanding that crypto (Bitcoin) isn't just a transmission network, it is protocol with a defined supply rate. Your payment pipelines bec

Your mistake is in understanding that crypto (Bitcoin) isn't just a transmission network, it is protocol with a defined supply rate. Your payment pipelines become less valuable when nobody wants those Liras, Bolivars, Argentine Pesos, etc. transmitted over them. And if you don't think that the US dollar is at risk of debasing itself, you should qualify why.

gitfan86 3y ago
The USD lost 98% of its value before bitcoin ever existed. The idea that sophisticated investors have been putting their money into USD and need crypto people to explain inflation to them is ridiculous. It is equally ridiculous that crypto people think that having a fixed supply of something makes it valuable. Oceanfront property in Miami is also limited, but crypto people are not pumping that because they are not invested in Miami oceanfront property.
- scottiebarnes 3y ago
  > The idea that sophisticated investors have been putting their money into USD and need crypto people to explain inflation to them is ridiculous. "Sophisticated investors" never had access to an asset whose supply was predictable (resistant to debasement), but also decentralized and permissionless to participate in. "Sophisticated investors" should probably know their monetary history, including why gold evolved as a world standard until Bretton Woods. And the types of money societies used before that. > It is equally ridiculous that crypto people think that having a fixed supply of something makes it valuable. Oceanfront property in Miami is also limited, but crypto people are not pumping that because they are not invested in Miami oceanfront property. Not sure what you mean, the lead up to 2008 was a pretty interesting time for real estate developers, why would crypto people be talking about condos?
  - gitfan86 3y ago
    Sophisticated investors generally do not want "decentralized and permissionless" assets. They want government and legal protections. Maybe you thing they are wrong for wanting that, because maybe you think the government is a threat to their wealth, and that is fine to have that opinion but the market for "decentralized and permissionless" isn't very big, which is why you don't see much money going into crypto anymore.
    - scottiebarnes 3y ago
      No, I understand why investors want legal guarantees. Actually, the endorsement and legal guidelines by the government for crypto would send its price soaring. Being decentralized means no single party controls it, and thusly no single party can debase it or prevent its distribution. You need to understand why gold is still used as a store of value, and the role of government bonds as safe havens in the modern economy. You have trust in a system because it works (for you) now, but you're not looking far enough into the future, and you're not weighting risk appropriately. Crypto isn't just about sending money or making money. This is a completely new "thing", and part of the way its used is redefining what money actually is, based on programmatic protocols, consensus algorithms, etc.
      - paddlepop 3y ago
        >> Being decentralized means no single party controls it I suggest you have a look at how many people are allowed to merge bitcoins PRs in github
        scottiebarnes 3y ago
        Its true, any specific open source project will have a limited and influential contributor base. But the fact that its open source code also allows it to be fluid and dynamic; ie. you and anyone who has different ideas about the direction of said project can build their own forks. You can convince people to support your network. And then your network will compete with all the other open networks and protocols. And may the better ones win.
      - gitfan86 3y ago
        This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Crypto people bring up gold out of no where. I have never invested in gold. You are projecting the idea that I don't understand why USD and Gold are bad investments.
        scottiebarnes 3y ago
- TimPC 3y ago
  Having a fixed supply does make something more valuable compared to a non-fixed supply. This has kind of been the story of the housing crisis in much of the Western world where NIMBYism and restrictive zoning have reduced the supply of housing in many desireable markets well below demand for housing. Canada has it much worse than the US as Canada has something like close to 50% of it's population in the GVA and the GTA which are both in the top 100 most unaffordable cities in the world on most lists (although on some lists Vancouver is only 103rd). Toronto prices will hopefully come down a little with EHON which seems to be an extremely good piece of legislation to allow gentle density. Having a fixed supply doesn't make something intrinsically valuable. But restricting the supply absolutely does increase price when demand exists.
- not2b 3y ago
  Moderate inflation is actually helpful. It improves the situation of debtors, and encourages people to use their money rather than hoard it. It's bad if it gets too high, of course. But a lot of boomers are very comfortable because they managed to buy a house and pay it off with cheaper and cheaper money. If your income keeps up with inflation isn't not much of a problem. Deflation can send an economy into a death spiral.

gitfan86 3y ago

The USD lost 98% of its value before bitcoin ever existed. The idea that sophisticated investors have been putting their money into USD and need crypto people to explain inflation to them is ridiculous. It is equally ridiculous that crypto people think that having a fixed supply of something makes it valuable. Oceanfront property in Miami is also limited, but crypto people are not pumping that because they are not invested in Miami oceanfront property.

scottiebarnes 3y ago
> The idea that sophisticated investors have been putting their money into USD and need crypto people to explain inflation to them is ridiculous. "Sophisticated investors" never had access to an asset whose supply was predictable (resistant to debasement), but also decentralized and permissionless to participate in. "Sophisticated investors" should probably know their monetary history, including why gold evolved as a world standard until Bretton Woods. And the types of money societies used before that. > It is equally ridiculous that crypto people think that having a fixed supply of something makes it valuable. Oceanfront property in Miami is also limited, but crypto people are not pumping that because they are not invested in Miami oceanfront property. Not sure what you mean, the lead up to 2008 was a pretty interesting time for real estate developers, why would crypto people be talking about condos?
- gitfan86 3y ago
  Sophisticated investors generally do not want "decentralized and permissionless" assets. They want government and legal protections. Maybe you thing they are wrong for wanting that, because maybe you think the government is a threat to their wealth, and that is fine to have that opinion but the market for "decentralized and permissionless" isn't very big, which is why you don't see much money going into crypto anymore.
  - scottiebarnes 3y ago
    No, I understand why investors want legal guarantees. Actually, the endorsement and legal guidelines by the government for crypto would send its price soaring. Being decentralized means no single party controls it, and thusly no single party can debase it or prevent its distribution. You need to understand why gold is still used as a store of value, and the role of government bonds as safe havens in the modern economy. You have trust in a system because it works (for you) now, but you're not looking far enough into the future, and you're not weighting risk appropriately. Crypto isn't just about sending money or making money. This is a completely new "thing", and part of the way its used is redefining what money actually is, based on programmatic protocols, consensus algorithms, etc.
    - paddlepop 3y ago
      >> Being decentralized means no single party controls it I suggest you have a look at how many people are allowed to merge bitcoins PRs in github
      - scottiebarnes 3y ago
        Its true, any specific open source project will have a limited and influential contributor base. But the fact that its open source code also allows it to be fluid and dynamic; ie. you and anyone who has different ideas about the direction of said project can build their own forks. You can convince people to support your network. And then your network will compete with all the other open networks and protocols. And may the better ones win.
    - gitfan86 3y ago
      This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Crypto people bring up gold out of no where. I have never invested in gold. You are projecting the idea that I don't understand why USD and Gold are bad investments.
      - scottiebarnes 3y ago
TimPC 3y ago
Having a fixed supply does make something more valuable compared to a non-fixed supply. This has kind of been the story of the housing crisis in much of the Western world where NIMBYism and restrictive zoning have reduced the supply of housing in many desireable markets well below demand for housing. Canada has it much worse than the US as Canada has something like close to 50% of it's population in the GVA and the GTA which are both in the top 100 most unaffordable cities in the world on most lists (although on some lists Vancouver is only 103rd). Toronto prices will hopefully come down a little with EHON which seems to be an extremely good piece of legislation to allow gentle density. Having a fixed supply doesn't make something intrinsically valuable. But restricting the supply absolutely does increase price when demand exists.
not2b 3y ago
Moderate inflation is actually helpful. It improves the situation of debtors, and encourages people to use their money rather than hoard it. It's bad if it gets too high, of course. But a lot of boomers are very comfortable because they managed to buy a house and pay it off with cheaper and cheaper money. If your income keeps up with inflation isn't not much of a problem. Deflation can send an economy into a death spiral.