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Molson says right in one of his tweets that he’s been “served with a lawsuit.” As far as I can tell, he hasn’t. He’s been served with a subpoena. Amazon has a r

by abduhl 3y ago

Molson says right in one of his tweets that he’s been “served with a lawsuit.” As far as I can tell, he hasn’t. He’s been served with a subpoena. Amazon has a right to subpoena evidence from third parties, and they have a right to extend their requests for evidence beyond just what has already been given to the CA AG. They have the right to look for exculpatory evidence, even if it’s more than what’s already been given by Molson. “I don’t have those documents” is an acceptable response to a subpoena, so it’s not like he has to come up with stuff he doesn’t already have. Amazon or the CA AG already having the evidence isn’t a reason to stop them from asking Molson for it. Molson also has rights. The discovery process isn’t supposed to be used to overwhelm or harass third parties, so he should move to quash if he really is being overwhelmed. This is the reality of our system: if you’re a witness and you’ve got evidence relevant to a case then the parties (and the court) have the right to get it from you. This is especially true when someone is already involved as a witness for one side, as here. Unfortunately, being able to be roped into a lawsuit that you’re not a party to is not only possible but probable in the USA.

no_wizard 3y ago
Note: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I agree, see my note about giving Molson some room here given I imagine the stresses of this ongoing situation Molson's involved in and likely doesn't have the legal vocabulary to back anything. Whats actually telling here is the motions Molson posted pictures of in the thread, that says everything that's actually happening here. I'm not going to fault someone under stress and likely has a limited understanding of the legal system for getting the wording wrong here, I imagine it feels like a lawsuit, but yes, its actually a subpoena. If hypothetically I was Molson I'd be rushing to hand this all over to the state AG and get resources from them for assistance, if at all possible.
- rdl 3y ago
  It's also a tweet, so even if he wrote "lawsuit" and wanted to correct it to "subpoena" (or other legal request), would not be possible to do so. It's interesting later on in his thread where it's clear he's not a particular critic of Amazon overall, merely this specific policy; they're turning him into an enemy either intentionally or unintentionally.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    He also could have meant served in a lawsuit, which is colloquially sometimes how people refer to being subpoenaed
mcv 3y ago
Does this mean you can go broke merely from being a witness? Or does Amazon have to reimburse him for his costs and time?
- Uvix 3y ago
  They don't reimburse jurors at a reasonable rate, why would witnesses be treated any better?
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    It's much easier to either get out of jury duty than a subpoena, or to fulfill jury duty than a subpoena. Also, witnesses testifying pretty much have to be voluntary. Consider being a witness to a mafia murder, and being afraid for your life. Do you think the system should be able to force you to that?
dang 3y ago
Ok, I've switched the title to say subpoenaed. If there's a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.
celestialcheese 3y ago
> “I don’t have those documents” is an acceptable response to a subpoena, so it’s not like he has to come up with stuff he doesn’t already have. Speaking from experience, better be sure you word that response right, or you might accidentally give them reason to push harder/further. You need a lawyer to fight against good lawyers. > Molson also has rights. The discovery process isn’t supposed to be used to overwhelm or harass third parties, so he should move to quash if he really is being overwhelmed While you're right, the process of even doing this will cost you a minimum of $10k USD if you're in a wealthy area in the coastal US. Which for a corporation is nothing, you likely have in-house counsel you're already paying for that can do this legal boilerplate. But as an individual it's terrifying and incredibly stressful.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  > While you're right, the process of even doing this will cost you a minimum of $10k USD if you're in a wealthy area in the coastal US. $1,645 in 2007 in Los Angeles, for N=1. Business partners had a nasty fallout and one subpoenaed me, a contractor who had billed them only $1,000.
kbenson 3y ago
> Molson says right in one of his tweets that he’s been “served with a lawsuit.” Do you have a reference to that tweet? Was it removed, or am I just having a hard time finding it?
- js2 3y ago
  "And in response, Amazon served me with a lawsuit." https://twitter.com/Molson_Hart/status/1663582603906088961 https://twitter.com/Molson_Hart/status/1663582603906088961

by abduhl 3y ago

no_wizard 3y ago

Note: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I agree, see my note about giving Molson some room here given I imagine the stresses of this ongoing situation Molson's involved in and likely doesn't have the legal vocabulary to back anything. Whats actually telling here is the motions Molson posted pictures of in the thread, that says everything that's actually happening here. I'm not going to fault someone under stress and likely has a limited understanding of the legal system for getting the wording wrong here, I imagine it feels like a lawsuit, but yes, its actually a subpoena. If hypothetically I was Molson I'd be rushing to hand this all over to the state AG and get resources from them for assistance, if at all possible.

rdl 3y ago
It's also a tweet, so even if he wrote "lawsuit" and wanted to correct it to "subpoena" (or other legal request), would not be possible to do so. It's interesting later on in his thread where it's clear he's not a particular critic of Amazon overall, merely this specific policy; they're turning him into an enemy either intentionally or unintentionally.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  He also could have meant served in a lawsuit, which is colloquially sometimes how people refer to being subpoenaed

mcv 3y ago

Does this mean you can go broke merely from being a witness? Or does Amazon have to reimburse him for his costs and time?

Uvix 3y ago
They don't reimburse jurors at a reasonable rate, why would witnesses be treated any better?
- yencabulator 3y ago
  It's much easier to either get out of jury duty than a subpoena, or to fulfill jury duty than a subpoena. Also, witnesses testifying pretty much have to be voluntary. Consider being a witness to a mafia murder, and being afraid for your life. Do you think the system should be able to force you to that?

dang 3y ago

Ok, I've switched the title to say subpoenaed. If there's a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.

celestialcheese 3y ago

> “I don’t have those documents” is an acceptable response to a subpoena, so it’s not like he has to come up with stuff he doesn’t already have. Speaking from experience, better be sure you word that response right, or you might accidentally give them reason to push harder/further. You need a lawyer to fight against good lawyers. > Molson also has rights. The discovery process isn’t supposed to be used to overwhelm or harass third parties, so he should move to quash if he really is being overwhelmed While you're right, the process of even doing this will cost you a minimum of $10k USD if you're in a wealthy area in the coastal US. Which for a corporation is nothing, you likely have in-house counsel you're already paying for that can do this legal boilerplate. But as an individual it's terrifying and incredibly stressful.

yencabulator 3y ago
> While you're right, the process of even doing this will cost you a minimum of $10k USD if you're in a wealthy area in the coastal US. $1,645 in 2007 in Los Angeles, for N=1. Business partners had a nasty fallout and one subpoenaed me, a contractor who had billed them only $1,000.

kbenson 3y ago

> Molson says right in one of his tweets that he’s been “served with a lawsuit.” Do you have a reference to that tweet? Was it removed, or am I just having a hard time finding it?

js2 3y ago
"And in response, Amazon served me with a lawsuit." https://twitter.com/Molson_Hart/status/1663582603906088961 https://twitter.com/Molson_Hart/status/1663582603906088961