6 ms·

Your claims are wildy misleading. Last winter, renewables contributed almost 50% to the German electricity mix. You're using the value for overall _energy_ thou

Your claims are wildy misleading. Last winter, renewables contributed almost 50% to the German electricity mix. You're using the value for overall _energy_ though, which includes heating which is of course still using fossil fuels for the most part in Germany. Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. Solar and wind don't provide energy 24/7 which is why you need storage. Which Germany adds at a breathtaking speed (1+ GWh of storage added just in the first quarter of this year). I am not against nuclear, but this bs is also completely unnecessary.

Semaphor 3y ago
> Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity.
- fundatus 3y ago
  > While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity. That's probably right if you take last year's prices (these were insane, that's correct). But right now you can buy electricity again for 2X ct/kwh, which is still on the more expensive side but certainly not the highest price in the world.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Nah, that’s where I see us on "cost of electricity by country" lists for consumer prices. The first time I looked was a few years ago. FWIW, I currently pay the (government capped) max, 0.4€/kWh
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Germany is middle of the pack for electricity production cost in the EU. They have more taxes/less subsidies than others though so the consumer price is higher.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    The power bill is not related to production cost, though, so taxes and subsidies count for that comparison.
looping__lui 3y ago
If you want to achieve a meaningful coverage with renewables, you need to install excessive capacity (e.g., imagine 5-6x the required capacity) AND install 100% in coal/gas/nuclear. Thats pretty expensive and pretty wasteful in terms of resources. Even with twice the renewables (and twice the gas capacity due to phasing out of coal and nuclear), we will emit twice the carbon emissions of France (today) in 2030. “Flexible grid and storage” are just nonsense that is thrown in to mask the ugly truth: 1) Deindustrialization, 2) Global Warming or 3) Going Nuclear.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  Overprovision yes, install 100% as fossil backup no... scale fixes your fav-renewable cannot produce enough, because somewhere they will produce, and the different techs combine also well, and then storage a lot, yes, and some backup sure, but even worst pessimists go not with 100%. > Thats pretty expensive Longterm the other alternatives are more expensive.. and that's not even calculating in that they are less sustainable. You keep repeating dogmas.
  - looping__lui 3y ago
    Fraunhofer provisions 100% fossil because your industry needs juice when there aint no wind or sun…
    - throwbadubadu 3y ago
      There is the dogma again.. did you once had a look for how long whole Europe had neither sun or wind? Despite them being not the only renewables.. and why are you ignoring storage as backup completely? Anyway, reference for Frauenhofer claim please, didn't know they are now heavy industry or a grid player? Confused..
      - looping__lui 3y ago
        “Dunkelflaute” (weeks without PV or wind) in Germany are a reality: https://amp.zdf.de/nachrichten/zdfheute-live/dunkelflaute-winter-fossile-energie-klimaschaedlich-video-100.html https://amp.zdf.de/nachrichten/zdfheute-live/dunkelflaute-wi... Fraunhofer is a leading (independent) research institute: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/daten-zu-erneuerbaren-energien.html https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/daten-zu-erneuerbaren-energ...

Semaphor 3y ago

> Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity.

fundatus 3y ago
> While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity. That's probably right if you take last year's prices (these were insane, that's correct). But right now you can buy electricity again for 2X ct/kwh, which is still on the more expensive side but certainly not the highest price in the world.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Nah, that’s where I see us on "cost of electricity by country" lists for consumer prices. The first time I looked was a few years ago. FWIW, I currently pay the (government capped) max, 0.4€/kWh
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Germany is middle of the pack for electricity production cost in the EU. They have more taxes/less subsidies than others though so the consumer price is higher.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  The power bill is not related to production cost, though, so taxes and subsidies count for that comparison.

looping__lui 3y ago

If you want to achieve a meaningful coverage with renewables, you need to install excessive capacity (e.g., imagine 5-6x the required capacity) AND install 100% in coal/gas/nuclear. Thats pretty expensive and pretty wasteful in terms of resources. Even with twice the renewables (and twice the gas capacity due to phasing out of coal and nuclear), we will emit twice the carbon emissions of France (today) in 2030. “Flexible grid and storage” are just nonsense that is thrown in to mask the ugly truth: 1) Deindustrialization, 2) Global Warming or 3) Going Nuclear.

throwbadubadu 3y ago
Overprovision yes, install 100% as fossil backup no... scale fixes your fav-renewable cannot produce enough, because somewhere they will produce, and the different techs combine also well, and then storage a lot, yes, and some backup sure, but even worst pessimists go not with 100%. > Thats pretty expensive Longterm the other alternatives are more expensive.. and that's not even calculating in that they are less sustainable. You keep repeating dogmas.
- looping__lui 3y ago
  Fraunhofer provisions 100% fossil because your industry needs juice when there aint no wind or sun…
  - throwbadubadu 3y ago
    There is the dogma again.. did you once had a look for how long whole Europe had neither sun or wind? Despite them being not the only renewables.. and why are you ignoring storage as backup completely? Anyway, reference for Frauenhofer claim please, didn't know they are now heavy industry or a grid player? Confused..
    - looping__lui 3y ago
      “Dunkelflaute” (weeks without PV or wind) in Germany are a reality: https://amp.zdf.de/nachrichten/zdfheute-live/dunkelflaute-winter-fossile-energie-klimaschaedlich-video-100.html https://amp.zdf.de/nachrichten/zdfheute-live/dunkelflaute-wi... Fraunhofer is a leading (independent) research institute: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/daten-zu-erneuerbaren-energien.html https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/daten-zu-erneuerbaren-energ...