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Just like our power bills - the highest in the world. Electricy has turned into a luxury good here thanks to our focus on "renewables". Germany's energy policy

by copx 3y ago

Just like our power bills - the highest in the world. Electricy has turned into a luxury good here thanks to our focus on "renewables". Germany's energy policy is the worst in the world by any standard. Not only has it lead to extremely high energy prices, it does not even have a good CO2 footprint. Thing is, wind and solar do not provide sufficient power 24/7, especially not in a German winter - when Germany needs the most power - so what does happend? We fire up the coal plants because "nuclear power bad". Last winter wind and solar only provided 10% of Germany's energy, and that number is not going to go up by much, because there is little sun and wind in Germany during winter.

cl0ckt0wer 3y ago
Nuclear power isn't bad, they buy loads of it from France. They're being NIMBY, but if France actually had a bad meltdown, Germany would probably be heavily impacted anyway.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  You mean France buys loads of coal power from Germany?
- copx 3y ago
  Yes, that's the typical hypocrisy of Germany's green-left ruling class. They closed down our own nuclear power plants only to import more nuclear power from France (and coal power from Poland). Again, our energy policy is horrible. People should look to nations like Finland instead if they want a good example of a climate friendly energy policy. They just finished the most powerful nuclear reactor in Europe, it alone will provide about 1/3 of the energy Finland needs, cheap and climate friendly.
  - fundatus 3y ago
    Last year France imported more electricity from Germany than it exported.
    - looping__lui 3y ago
      And yet we import nuclear electricity when the sun doesn’t shine or there is no wind in Germany…
  - distances 3y ago
    > They just finished the most powerful nuclear reactor in Europe, it alone will provide about 1/3 of the energy Finland needs, cheap and climate friendly. OL3 does not provide anywhere near to 1/3 of Finnish needs. It's producing 1600 MW. Finland's average production this year has been 9187 MWh/h, and average consumption 9435 MWh/h. https://www.fingrid.fi/sahkomarkkinainformaatio/kulutus-ja-tuotanto/ https://www.fingrid.fi/sahkomarkkinainformaatio/kulutus-ja-t...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
fundatus 3y ago
Your claims are wildy misleading. Last winter, renewables contributed almost 50% to the German electricity mix. You're using the value for overall _energy_ though, which includes heating which is of course still using fossil fuels for the most part in Germany. Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. Solar and wind don't provide energy 24/7 which is why you need storage. Which Germany adds at a breathtaking speed (1+ GWh of storage added just in the first quarter of this year). I am not against nuclear, but this bs is also completely unnecessary.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  > Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity.
  - fundatus 3y ago
    > While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity. That's probably right if you take last year's prices (these were insane, that's correct). But right now you can buy electricity again for 2X ct/kwh, which is still on the more expensive side but certainly not the highest price in the world.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Nah, that’s where I see us on "cost of electricity by country" lists for consumer prices. The first time I looked was a few years ago. FWIW, I currently pay the (government capped) max, 0.4€/kWh
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
    Germany is middle of the pack for electricity production cost in the EU. They have more taxes/less subsidies than others though so the consumer price is higher.
gobip 3y ago
Great thing the ex-ex-chancelor sold Germany's electricity to Russia. The pension must be good. The citizens aren't complaining.
sologoub 3y ago
Agree with you on nuclear, but Germany isn’t the most expensive. While US per kwh is lower, there are so many surcharges and various schemes that the effect rate when you actually need it (day for air conditioning, evening for everything else because that’s when people are back from work) is really high: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residential-Rate-Plans https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residentia... And remember, CA has no harsh winters and inland is usually all sunshine and good amount of wind too. Still, we are not doing all that much better and still burn fossil fuels (and of course shutting down nuclear).
- andromeduck 3y ago
  Of course California is not different; the high prices are a consequence of their "100% renewables or bust but 0% nuclear first" approach to energy policy. California hasn't even increased their hydro/resovoir capacity for half a century despite massive industry and population growth and consistently worsening dry spells.

by copx 3y ago

cl0ckt0wer 3y ago

Nuclear power isn't bad, they buy loads of it from France. They're being NIMBY, but if France actually had a bad meltdown, Germany would probably be heavily impacted anyway.

Semaphor 3y ago
You mean France buys loads of coal power from Germany?
copx 3y ago
Yes, that's the typical hypocrisy of Germany's green-left ruling class. They closed down our own nuclear power plants only to import more nuclear power from France (and coal power from Poland). Again, our energy policy is horrible. People should look to nations like Finland instead if they want a good example of a climate friendly energy policy. They just finished the most powerful nuclear reactor in Europe, it alone will provide about 1/3 of the energy Finland needs, cheap and climate friendly.
- fundatus 3y ago
  Last year France imported more electricity from Germany than it exported.
  - looping__lui 3y ago
    And yet we import nuclear electricity when the sun doesn’t shine or there is no wind in Germany…
- distances 3y ago
  > They just finished the most powerful nuclear reactor in Europe, it alone will provide about 1/3 of the energy Finland needs, cheap and climate friendly. OL3 does not provide anywhere near to 1/3 of Finnish needs. It's producing 1600 MW. Finland's average production this year has been 9187 MWh/h, and average consumption 9435 MWh/h. https://www.fingrid.fi/sahkomarkkinainformaatio/kulutus-ja-tuotanto/ https://www.fingrid.fi/sahkomarkkinainformaatio/kulutus-ja-t...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

fundatus 3y ago

Your claims are wildy misleading. Last winter, renewables contributed almost 50% to the German electricity mix. You're using the value for overall _energy_ though, which includes heating which is of course still using fossil fuels for the most part in Germany. Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. Solar and wind don't provide energy 24/7 which is why you need storage. Which Germany adds at a breathtaking speed (1+ GWh of storage added just in the first quarter of this year). I am not against nuclear, but this bs is also completely unnecessary.

Semaphor 3y ago
> Also, Germany does not have the highest power bills in the world. While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity.
- fundatus 3y ago
  > While I agree with everything else you said, this is only technically true, last I checked. Only small island nations had more expensive electricity. That's probably right if you take last year's prices (these were insane, that's correct). But right now you can buy electricity again for 2X ct/kwh, which is still on the more expensive side but certainly not the highest price in the world.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Nah, that’s where I see us on "cost of electricity by country" lists for consumer prices. The first time I looked was a few years ago. FWIW, I currently pay the (government capped) max, 0.4€/kWh
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Germany is middle of the pack for electricity production cost in the EU. They have more taxes/less subsidies than others though so the consumer price is higher.

gobip 3y ago

Great thing the ex-ex-chancelor sold Germany's electricity to Russia. The pension must be good. The citizens aren't complaining.

sologoub 3y ago

Agree with you on nuclear, but Germany isn’t the most expensive. While US per kwh is lower, there are so many surcharges and various schemes that the effect rate when you actually need it (day for air conditioning, evening for everything else because that’s when people are back from work) is really high: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residential-Rate-Plans https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residentia... And remember, CA has no harsh winters and inland is usually all sunshine and good amount of wind too. Still, we are not doing all that much better and still burn fossil fuels (and of course shutting down nuclear).

andromeduck 3y ago
Of course California is not different; the high prices are a consequence of their "100% renewables or bust but 0% nuclear first" approach to energy policy. California hasn't even increased their hydro/resovoir capacity for half a century despite massive industry and population growth and consistently worsening dry spells.