5 ms·

>"EU is basically paying a premium in order to stake a claim to moral high ground they don't hold" They may or may not be paying a premium, but it has nothing

>"EU is basically paying a premium in order to stake a claim to moral high ground they don't hold" They may or may not be paying a premium, but it has nothing to do with "moral high ground". Its to do with not giving the regional agressor leverage over your economy. The war between Russia and Ukraine exists in the military domain, the war between Europe and Russia is currently in the economic domain. Even if sanctions only shifted the supply chain to add middlemen, it prevents Russia from having direct control on energy supplies in Europe, which improves Europe's (and Ukraine's) strategic position. Ukraine and Europe are defending their homes and people from a military/economic/political threat, an imperialist threat, and you think this is about "moral high ground"?

ffgjgf1 3y ago
> it prevents Russia from having direct control on energy supplies in Europe, which improves Europe's ( This mainly applied to gas and not oil though. The point of the sanctions is to primarily decreases Russia’s oil revenue.
carlosjobim 3y ago
So you're smart enough to understand this, and the European Union is smart enough to understand this - but the Russians are too stupid to understand it? You don't have any duty to defend every action of European politicians. You will certainly never be rewarded for your loyalty to them. The best reward you can hope for is increased taxation of your labour and the worst reward is being drafted into an industrialized war. The EU are not winning against Russia by purchasing energy from them through middlemen.
- belltaco 3y ago
  > but the Russians are too stupid to understand it Who said they don't understand it? What can they do about it? Nothing.
  - yogthos 3y ago
    What they can and have done about it is to redirect their trade towards non western countries that constitute the majority of the world. Plenty of recent articles clearly show that the sanctions have been an utter failure in practice. The only entity that's being severely hurt here is Europe. https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/02/23/world/russia-ukraine-geopolitics.html https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com... https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-we-please-stop-comparing-russia%E2%80%99s-economy-italy%E2%80%99s-206404 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-we-please-stop-comp... https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-ministry-improves-2023-gdp-growth-forecast-2023-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-minis... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/21/the-west-tightening-russian-sanctions-a-sign-of-failure https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/21/the-west-ti...
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      It's kind of funny to hear Russians argue how sanctions utterly failed, they are hurting the West, do not hurt Russia, on the opposite only strengthen it ... There's a saying "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake", yet it seems Russians do exactly that again and again?
      - yogthos 3y ago
        This isn't the Russians arguing, this is mainstream western pres saying this.
        The_Colonel 3y ago
        Hand-picked to fit your agenda. No need to link the sources which disagree, right? Also, this link selection is provided by a Russian, so the point still stands.
        yogthos 3y ago

ffgjgf1 3y ago

> it prevents Russia from having direct control on energy supplies in Europe, which improves Europe's ( This mainly applied to gas and not oil though. The point of the sanctions is to primarily decreases Russia’s oil revenue.

carlosjobim 3y ago

So you're smart enough to understand this, and the European Union is smart enough to understand this - but the Russians are too stupid to understand it? You don't have any duty to defend every action of European politicians. You will certainly never be rewarded for your loyalty to them. The best reward you can hope for is increased taxation of your labour and the worst reward is being drafted into an industrialized war. The EU are not winning against Russia by purchasing energy from them through middlemen.

belltaco 3y ago
> but the Russians are too stupid to understand it Who said they don't understand it? What can they do about it? Nothing.
- yogthos 3y ago
  What they can and have done about it is to redirect their trade towards non western countries that constitute the majority of the world. Plenty of recent articles clearly show that the sanctions have been an utter failure in practice. The only entity that's being severely hurt here is Europe. https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/02/23/world/russia-ukraine-geopolitics.html https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com... https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-we-please-stop-comparing-russia%E2%80%99s-economy-italy%E2%80%99s-206404 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-we-please-stop-comp... https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-ministry-improves-2023-gdp-growth-forecast-2023-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-minis... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/21/the-west-tightening-russian-sanctions-a-sign-of-failure https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/21/the-west-ti...
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    It's kind of funny to hear Russians argue how sanctions utterly failed, they are hurting the West, do not hurt Russia, on the opposite only strengthen it ... There's a saying "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake", yet it seems Russians do exactly that again and again?
    - yogthos 3y ago
      This isn't the Russians arguing, this is mainstream western pres saying this.
      - The_Colonel 3y ago
        Hand-picked to fit your agenda. No need to link the sources which disagree, right? Also, this link selection is provided by a Russian, so the point still stands.
        yogthos 3y ago