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EU traded off massive inflation for independence from Russian fossil fuels. A victory for politicians, not so much for the Otto Normalverbraucher.
by mkl95 3y ago
EU traded off massive inflation for independence from Russian fossil fuels. A victory for politicians, not so much for the Otto Normalverbraucher.
- fishnchips 3y agoShort term loss for long term gain.
- ilyt 3y agoNot being dependent from terrorist state for basic necessities like fuel is worth it.
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoThat's why we buy it from countries like saudi arabia, like the guys who had issues flying those planes in 2001. But since saudis are "besties" with the US establishment, this is a-ok!
- aziaziazi 3y agoMore precisely : terrorist state not on your side. Many countries are considered terrorist states in all sides of the world, including France, UK, Spain, Israel, Saudi Arabia and of course USA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism
- ilyt 3y agoGood point. US in particular stirred a lot of shit that's still brewing now...
- lostlogin 3y agoGo easy on France, they’ve only come down here and attacked us in New Zealand that one time.
- aziaziazi 3y agoC’mon, it can’t be the french for military reasons! Probably the MI16! No, the Russians! No, an outsider! No, the far rights! No, Caledonian Barbouzes! Mmmh finally that was the Frenchs…
- Lariscus 3y agoSo do you suggest throwing Ukraine under the bus for cheap energy?
- atlantic 3y agoLet's rephrase "throwing Ukraine under a bus" as "not getting involved in a border dispute between two Eastern European countries", and maybe the answer is less obvious.
- reducesuffering 3y agoBorder dispute? They invaded the country, surrounded the capital and shelled the shit out of it.
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoYes, because they shelled the minority who wanted independence since 2014. Nato bombed yugoslavia for months for the same thing, and they still act as a defensive organization.
- The_Colonel 3y agoWe could discuss the 2014 events for hours and in any case the shelling has been going from both directions. But there's one clear fact - the war in Donbas was calming down in intensity in the years preceding 2022. In the three years 2019-2021, 78 civilians died in total, mostly from old unexploded mines. There was absolutely no "need" to make it a full scale war and ramp up the number to tens of thousands civilians dead.
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoUkraine was preparing a war to take back donbas, and there was no "calming down". The problem is, that the media changed their stories after the start of war. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-number-explosions-east-ukraine-2022-02-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb... > MOSCOW, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Two regions in eastern Ukraine where government and separatist forces have been fighting since 2014 were hit by more than 1,400 explosions on Friday, monitors for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) said, pointing to a surge in shelling. 1400 "explosions" in one day are far away from "calm" to me. This was just before russia entered the war. On the other hand, eu/nato was training ukranian soldiers since 2015.
- pupperino 3y ago"Massive" is a bit of a strong word. One year of 8-16% inflation with historic averages close to 2-3% is actually quite ok and demonstrates the European Central Bank's credibility.
- barbazoo 3y agoIn the long term, Otto will be happy about this.
- 908B64B197 3y ago[flagged]
- barbazoo 3y ago> Otto will own nothing and be happy. If only people didn't take this quote out of context to plaster it over the internet all the time.
- ghostwriter 3y ago[flagged]
- barbazoo 3y ago> According to WEF speakers, Otto will own nothing first, and then he'll be happy. According to one WEF speaker if I'm not mistaken. Side question, how long are we gonna use that to spread FUD?
- causi 3y agoI prefer my government not to be profit-driven sociopaths, thanks.
- The_Colonel 3y agoHaving Russia as a supplier does not save you from inflation. Worth remembering that the unprecedented price rise of natural gas started in 2021, months before the war started. The price rise was caused by supply restriction from Russia in preparation for the war and likely intended as a blackmail all along.
- codethief 3y agoFossil fuel prices in Europe are actually back to pre-war levels. (Nevertheless, inflation is still rather high but that seems unrelated to energy now.)
- ffgjgf1 3y agoThere were already quite inflated for at least half a year or so prior to the war.
- The_Colonel 3y agoThe price now is the same as 2 years ago, before the big price hike: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas The prices will likely jump again in the fall/winter (but likely nowhere near to the 2022 winter).
- fy20 3y agoWhy is the gas price still €2.40 per cubic meter where I live then? That's nearly 10x what it was two years ago.
- The_Colonel 3y agoDepends, maybe you have a long term fix price contract. Energy providers are slow to lower the prices, because they have long term contracts (to be fair, they were often slow to increase the prices as well - I got my first increase literally a month ago).
- everybodyknows 3y agoA "victory for politicians"? Some of us think it was a victory for world civilization.
- skrebbel 3y agoAs an armchair fan of the German language, I appreciate you teaching me the phrase “ Otto Normalverbraucher”, it’s delightful.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ffgjgf1 3y agoNot taking steps to decrease Europe’s reliance on Russia fossil fuels in the years after Putin took power was immensely idiotic. Both politically and economically. At this point there was no non-painful way to do this.
- Barrin92 3y ago>EU traded off massive inflation Single digit inflation with a pandemic, supply chain disruptions a war and an energy crisis is a lot of things but hardly massive. Given the horror stories that we were promised by defenders of the status quo this is a joke, and I say that as a German citizen who had to absorb a few nasty electricity bills. If this is all it takes to wean ourselves off autocratic blackmail we have a lot to be ashamed off for the years where we pretended this would impoverish us and we'd freeze to death. Turns out that has a lot more to do with our ex-chancellor sitting on a Gazprom board than reality.
- wiseowise 3y agoOf course it’s independence from Russian fossil fuels that caused inflation, and not a year lockdown because of global pandemic.
- riffraff 3y agoMassive inflation happened because of many reasons, but it has affected even countries outside the EU, and it's affecting especially european countries that never stopped buying Russian fossil fuels (Turkey, Hungary, Serbia) more than the EU average.