4 ms·

It’s been corrupt since its inception. It’s not possible to fix it.

jacquesm 3y ago
Disbanding it will just cause an alternative force to replace it, and you'll need to wait to see how that will develop, which could well be worse. Think of it as a variation on the 'don't rewrite' mantra, rewriting it causes massive instability and has an unknown deadline, improving what is there is much easier. If you want to envision some kind of Utopian view of law enforcement then there is the simple problem of 'who watches the watchers', a question that has been bugging us since antiquity and which I don't think we'll see an effective solution to in this life (or the next). Every law enforcement body consists of people and people are fallible, and will always be fallible. So you need to accept that and design accordingly, and you also will need to accept that mistakes (small ones and much larger and graver ones) will be made, as well as abuses of power. To re-architect a police force in the United States that transcends the states is an undertaking that in the current political climate is undoable. So advocating for abandoning the FBI effectively advocates for abandoning federal policing in general, and that certainly isn't going to have a net positive effect.
- bilbo0s 3y ago
  and you'll need to wait to see how that will develop No. We won't. You're going to give the FBI's responsibilities and tools to a new agency? It'll be crystal clear how it will develop the next day. DHS was formed in 2002. By 2003 what we in the public would later know as "extraordinary rendition" became commonplace. I think you guys are all being naive. Or maybe you guys really are just this innocent that you believe in the inability of newly formed agencies to act with capability and resolve. Which would be especially simple in a situation where we get rid of the facility for investigating wrongdoing among law enforcement agencies. Which is, (checks notes), Ah, the FBI. I'd be very careful following anyone telling us that the FBI is not enough. They've done it before, and we ended up with the Patriot Act. Then they told us the problem was not only the FBI, but CIA too! That landed us with a DHS and a FISA court that is illegal for us to even ask information on. Think long and hard guys, about who exactly are the true people behind all these calls for new, more comprehensive agencies. And what their ultimate goals might be. jaquesm is speaking reason here. There is no sane point to disbanding the FBI. They're doing their job. If they have made a mistake you don't like. File a complaint. You can even contact your congressperson. But disbanding them is not a reasonable option.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    It’s remarkable that the FISA court has been allowed to continue. Hopefully with evidence that it’s being routinely abused someone will having the standing and resources to get the real court to restore some security to the people (ironically, what these agencies are supposed to be protecting).

Disbanding it will just cause an alternative force to replace it, and you'll need to wait to see how that will develop, which could well be worse. Think of it as a variation on the 'don't rewrite' mantra, rewriting it causes massive instability and has an unknown deadline, improving what is there is much easier. If you want to envision some kind of Utopian view of law enforcement then there is the simple problem of 'who watches the watchers', a question that has been bugging us since antiquity and which I don't think we'll see an effective solution to in this life (or the next). Every law enforcement body consists of people and people are fallible, and will always be fallible. So you need to accept that and design accordingly, and you also will need to accept that mistakes (small ones and much larger and graver ones) will be made, as well as abuses of power. To re-architect a police force in the United States that transcends the states is an undertaking that in the current political climate is undoable. So advocating for abandoning the FBI effectively advocates for abandoning federal policing in general, and that certainly isn't going to have a net positive effect.

bilbo0s 3y ago
and you'll need to wait to see how that will develop No. We won't. You're going to give the FBI's responsibilities and tools to a new agency? It'll be crystal clear how it will develop the next day. DHS was formed in 2002. By 2003 what we in the public would later know as "extraordinary rendition" became commonplace. I think you guys are all being naive. Or maybe you guys really are just this innocent that you believe in the inability of newly formed agencies to act with capability and resolve. Which would be especially simple in a situation where we get rid of the facility for investigating wrongdoing among law enforcement agencies. Which is, (checks notes), Ah, the FBI. I'd be very careful following anyone telling us that the FBI is not enough. They've done it before, and we ended up with the Patriot Act. Then they told us the problem was not only the FBI, but CIA too! That landed us with a DHS and a FISA court that is illegal for us to even ask information on. Think long and hard guys, about who exactly are the true people behind all these calls for new, more comprehensive agencies. And what their ultimate goals might be. jaquesm is speaking reason here. There is no sane point to disbanding the FBI. They're doing their job. If they have made a mistake you don't like. File a complaint. You can even contact your congressperson. But disbanding them is not a reasonable option.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  It’s remarkable that the FISA court has been allowed to continue. Hopefully with evidence that it’s being routinely abused someone will having the standing and resources to get the real court to restore some security to the people (ironically, what these agencies are supposed to be protecting).