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> All this does is creating unnecessary drama surrounding the Rust foundation. They are doing a fantastic job of creating drama all by themselves. I don't use

> All this does is creating unnecessary drama surrounding the Rust foundation. They are doing a fantastic job of creating drama all by themselves. I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to.

qersist3nce 3y ago
Many years ago, I read a comment on Slashdot saying "the fact of a programming language having a "code of conduct" makes it ripe for everlasting drama and politics." It made sense then and it makes sense now.
- DanHulton 3y ago
  Every community has a code of conduct, it's just that some of them are explicit about it.
  - qersist3nce 3y ago
    Would the Rust foundation be ok with SQLite CoC? or a software project with a CoC in compliance with Uganda laws?
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    The fascist part of it is forcing people to use them and threatening them when they don't understand the need to address a non-problem with terminology, duties, and responsibilities they don't agree with.
- alkonaut 3y ago
  The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. These days it would be more strange to see a major project NOT have a CoC than seeing one. There is drama and politics in any large org whether or not there is a CoC or not.
  - qersist3nce 3y ago
    Slashdot was sold to another media company which had other priorities. Are you aware of its "redesign" drama strictly followed by that same new leadership? Many users left then and there.
    - alkonaut 3y ago
      I left a long time ago. I think around the same time as CmdrTaco. But the place was basically just tech Luddites and Microsoft bashing so it became a bit repetitive. Also: HN.
    - jq-r 3y ago
      Slashdot is a good example how a vastly unpopular redesign to make the site more "modern" can bring the whole business down. It's not even the bad redesign per se; it's sticking to it, and not reversing on it. A real shame in my opinion as I think that auto-moderation system is the best I've seen.
      - KerrAvon 3y ago
        It was ridiculously easy to game the Slashdot moderation system. You knew what topics would get upvoted -- positive about Linux, negative about something like SCO during the lawsuit period. It was not difficult to accumulate karma.
        jq-r 3y ago
        I'm not sure if that was the fault of moderation system. This is more of an echo chamber effect which exists everywhere where there are humans involved. Not sure if technology can change that.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. That was certainly not my experience; I left because all discussions were monopolised by a few seemingly unemployed accounts to shame any and everyone into agreeing with whatever the vocal minority at the time was pushing. When I stopped reading it, the only people left were those who were constantly using shaming language on anyone who didn't agree about things like a code of conduct, or words are violence too, etc.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  Except that most languages have significant amounts of drama. Rust drama is just more interesting to people because it's newer.
fredsmith219 3y ago
Bingo. All the drama has succeeded in doing is removing Rust as a possible language for my next project.
porcoda 3y ago
> I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to. Same. I want to use it because technically it's the right choice for a few projects, but when I talk to people in my organization I still label it as "too immature and volatile to adopt today, but worth watching". I was hoping the adoption by Linux and Microsoft would be the forcing factor to stabilize it, but the governance aspect still seems chaotic. I'll keep watching and hopefully it calms down such that adopting it won't be a risk. Or maybe the good parts will just get adopted by a more stable (w.r.t. governance and standardization) language.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  Rust is pretty stable and clearly past the point of being immature and volatile. A few issues that the internet has blown up lately doesn't change that.
  - jen20 3y ago
    Indeed, by criteria of community drama, .NET is also too immature for use. See [1], as the conclusion of that. [1]: https://github.com/dotnet-foundation/Home/discussions/40 https://github.com/dotnet-foundation/Home/discussions/40
pie_flavor 3y ago
You can find no trace of childish bickering in the language, tools, libraries, or documentation. I'm not sure why people doing silly things off in the distance would bias you against using Rust, the use of which would not involve those people ever.
- silisili 3y ago
  While I think your statement is true, a few reasons: 1 - I will inevitably end up on some mailing list or forums when researching libraries, correct way to do things, etc, where such people interact. 2 - As 'governors' of the language, how can I trust them to make sound investments in the future? I don't want to just learn a language and tooling as a one off. 3 - I don't want to support organizations that act this way, even if the language were perfect.
  - pie_flavor 3y ago
    1) This is an accurate complaint. By my estimation (on the official discord) they interact in such a way for an amortized three of the 1440 minutes in the day. 2) The language is pretty great. Further serious investment is going to be primarily in the third-party libraries department. 3) You need make no contributions, financial or otherwise. I am probably a net drain on the foundation's resources.

qersist3nce 3y ago

Many years ago, I read a comment on Slashdot saying "the fact of a programming language having a "code of conduct" makes it ripe for everlasting drama and politics." It made sense then and it makes sense now.

DanHulton 3y ago
Every community has a code of conduct, it's just that some of them are explicit about it.
- qersist3nce 3y ago
  Would the Rust foundation be ok with SQLite CoC? or a software project with a CoC in compliance with Uganda laws?
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  The fascist part of it is forcing people to use them and threatening them when they don't understand the need to address a non-problem with terminology, duties, and responsibilities they don't agree with.
alkonaut 3y ago
The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. These days it would be more strange to see a major project NOT have a CoC than seeing one. There is drama and politics in any large org whether or not there is a CoC or not.
- qersist3nce 3y ago
  Slashdot was sold to another media company which had other priorities. Are you aware of its "redesign" drama strictly followed by that same new leadership? Many users left then and there.
  - alkonaut 3y ago
    I left a long time ago. I think around the same time as CmdrTaco. But the place was basically just tech Luddites and Microsoft bashing so it became a bit repetitive. Also: HN.
  - jq-r 3y ago
    Slashdot is a good example how a vastly unpopular redesign to make the site more "modern" can bring the whole business down. It's not even the bad redesign per se; it's sticking to it, and not reversing on it. A real shame in my opinion as I think that auto-moderation system is the best I've seen.
    - KerrAvon 3y ago
      It was ridiculously easy to game the Slashdot moderation system. You knew what topics would get upvoted -- positive about Linux, negative about something like SCO during the lawsuit period. It was not difficult to accumulate karma.
      - jq-r 3y ago
        I'm not sure if that was the fault of moderation system. This is more of an echo chamber effect which exists everywhere where there are humans involved. Not sure if technology can change that.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. That was certainly not my experience; I left because all discussions were monopolised by a few seemingly unemployed accounts to shame any and everyone into agreeing with whatever the vocal minority at the time was pushing. When I stopped reading it, the only people left were those who were constantly using shaming language on anyone who didn't agree about things like a code of conduct, or words are violence too, etc.
insanitybit 3y ago
Except that most languages have significant amounts of drama. Rust drama is just more interesting to people because it's newer.

fredsmith219 3y ago

Bingo. All the drama has succeeded in doing is removing Rust as a possible language for my next project.

porcoda 3y ago

> I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to. Same. I want to use it because technically it's the right choice for a few projects, but when I talk to people in my organization I still label it as "too immature and volatile to adopt today, but worth watching". I was hoping the adoption by Linux and Microsoft would be the forcing factor to stabilize it, but the governance aspect still seems chaotic. I'll keep watching and hopefully it calms down such that adopting it won't be a risk. Or maybe the good parts will just get adopted by a more stable (w.r.t. governance and standardization) language.

insanitybit 3y ago
Rust is pretty stable and clearly past the point of being immature and volatile. A few issues that the internet has blown up lately doesn't change that.
- jen20 3y ago
  Indeed, by criteria of community drama, .NET is also too immature for use. See [1], as the conclusion of that. [1]: https://github.com/dotnet-foundation/Home/discussions/40 https://github.com/dotnet-foundation/Home/discussions/40

pie_flavor 3y ago

You can find no trace of childish bickering in the language, tools, libraries, or documentation. I'm not sure why people doing silly things off in the distance would bias you against using Rust, the use of which would not involve those people ever.

silisili 3y ago
While I think your statement is true, a few reasons: 1 - I will inevitably end up on some mailing list or forums when researching libraries, correct way to do things, etc, where such people interact. 2 - As 'governors' of the language, how can I trust them to make sound investments in the future? I don't want to just learn a language and tooling as a one off. 3 - I don't want to support organizations that act this way, even if the language were perfect.
- pie_flavor 3y ago
  1) This is an accurate complaint. By my estimation (on the official discord) they interact in such a way for an amortized three of the 1440 minutes in the day. 2) The language is pretty great. Further serious investment is going to be primarily in the third-party libraries department. 3) You need make no contributions, financial or otherwise. I am probably a net drain on the foundation's resources.