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The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id

by y7 3y ago

The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089

Dalewyn 3y ago
[flagged]
- tutuca 3y ago
  That's a pretty political statement Dale.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Right now it's being armed, eventually it will be thinking and stating wrongspeak. Seen this song and dance play out so many times my notebook is rusty from age.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - yawpitch 3y ago
      Sounds like your notebook is also really, really crabby.
    - octernion 3y ago
      why do you people always talk like cartoon villains
      - taacc3 3y ago
        [dead]
- Twirrim 3y ago
  If it involves people, it will be political. There's absolutely zero way to avoid it short of it being a single-person project (and arguably even _that_ will be Political at the very least).
  - dijit 3y ago
    Ah yes "there is always x, so why shy from this x?", I wonder if there's a named logical fallacy for this, I think the closest might be "Moral Equivalence" There will always be drama, there will always be politics, but I wonder how entities manage to graze by with broad support in those situations, possibly by being equitable, consistent and transparent? Just guessing. Python doesn't have so much regarding internal struggles of power, same for Linux (BFDL might have his controversies but nobody is seriously considering forking the Kernel)- and that's one of the largest FOSS projects on the planet. Even when things get super sticky (like nvidia) people still broadly support Linux and the direction? Why is that? There's politics, but we're not really complaining that there are politics, we're complaining that there's a essence of abuse here. We're complaining that there is a distinct lack of transparency, consistency, and a broad lack of what many would consider to be morally OK. That's not really politics, but you could just roll it into the same word if you're dismissing a project for troubling elements that are non-technical. Politics being people and all.
    - Twirrim 3y ago
      > Ah yes "there is always x, so why shy from this x?", I wonder if there's a named logical fallacy for this, I think the closest might be "Moral Equivalence" I absolutely did not say that, and would not say that. The person I was responding to was making a comment saying that a language shouldn't be political. My point was that it's impossible to have a language that isn't political, simply by nature of it involving humans. They will disagree. They will need to make decisions. They will change their behaviour to get what they want, either consciously or subconsciously. > Python doesn't have so much regarding internal struggles of power What....? Python has all sorts of political crap going on. Take a look through the dev forums and mailing lists. Look at the various groups and subgroups of developers, the way they interact and organise around different perspectives etc. There was a whole bunch of that leading up to Guido's eventual stepping down as BDFL, after the long fight to get PEP 572 out (walrus operator). He even called it out in his stepping down email.
- smt88 3y ago
  Human rights are not political unless you're trying to reduce them. Mozilla justifiably did not want to work with someone who opposes certain human rights (including those of other employees), and that shouldn't be controversial or political.
  - Levitz 3y ago
    What do human rights have to do with any of this? Isn't this about trademarks?
    - bloopernova 3y ago
      Are there humans involved? Then human rights are also involved.
    - andrewflnr 3y ago
      I think they're dredging up Brendan Eich's opposition to gay marriage. But no, the latest kerfuffle isn't trademarks, either. If you're interested, it's all over r/rust.
      - smt88 3y ago
        I wasn't dredging it up. I was replying to someone who dredged it up first.
kuu 3y ago
More context (by dang): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583742
noobdev9000 3y ago
Rust was always a corporation/FAANG language when you looked at contributors and sponsors, so it's probably not real reason, I mean it is clear async was rushed out for AWS/Amazon and everyone celebrated it nonetheless. People like to hide motives
- pests 3y ago
  I'm curious to the story behind async being rushed out for Amazon
  - orra 3y ago
    The Amazon bit is new, but it's a pervasive myth that Rust's async was rushed. Also, that Pin<T> was a design mistake. However, this is very strongly refuted. See [edit: warning: abrasively worded post by withoutboats] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- tracker1 3y ago
  Considering how long it took for async, and the depth of proposals, I wouldn't call it rushed at all.
lordswork 3y ago
Even more context: https://github.com/crablang/crab/issues/14 https://github.com/crablang/crab/issues/14

by y7 3y ago

Dalewyn 3y ago

[flagged]

tutuca 3y ago
That's a pretty political statement Dale.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Right now it's being armed, eventually it will be thinking and stating wrongspeak. Seen this song and dance play out so many times my notebook is rusty from age.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - yawpitch 3y ago
    Sounds like your notebook is also really, really crabby.
  - octernion 3y ago
    why do you people always talk like cartoon villains
    - taacc3 3y ago
      [dead]
Twirrim 3y ago
If it involves people, it will be political. There's absolutely zero way to avoid it short of it being a single-person project (and arguably even _that_ will be Political at the very least).
- dijit 3y ago
  Ah yes "there is always x, so why shy from this x?", I wonder if there's a named logical fallacy for this, I think the closest might be "Moral Equivalence" There will always be drama, there will always be politics, but I wonder how entities manage to graze by with broad support in those situations, possibly by being equitable, consistent and transparent? Just guessing. Python doesn't have so much regarding internal struggles of power, same for Linux (BFDL might have his controversies but nobody is seriously considering forking the Kernel)- and that's one of the largest FOSS projects on the planet. Even when things get super sticky (like nvidia) people still broadly support Linux and the direction? Why is that? There's politics, but we're not really complaining that there are politics, we're complaining that there's a essence of abuse here. We're complaining that there is a distinct lack of transparency, consistency, and a broad lack of what many would consider to be morally OK. That's not really politics, but you could just roll it into the same word if you're dismissing a project for troubling elements that are non-technical. Politics being people and all.
  - Twirrim 3y ago
    > Ah yes "there is always x, so why shy from this x?", I wonder if there's a named logical fallacy for this, I think the closest might be "Moral Equivalence" I absolutely did not say that, and would not say that. The person I was responding to was making a comment saying that a language shouldn't be political. My point was that it's impossible to have a language that isn't political, simply by nature of it involving humans. They will disagree. They will need to make decisions. They will change their behaviour to get what they want, either consciously or subconsciously. > Python doesn't have so much regarding internal struggles of power What....? Python has all sorts of political crap going on. Take a look through the dev forums and mailing lists. Look at the various groups and subgroups of developers, the way they interact and organise around different perspectives etc. There was a whole bunch of that leading up to Guido's eventual stepping down as BDFL, after the long fight to get PEP 572 out (walrus operator). He even called it out in his stepping down email.
smt88 3y ago
Human rights are not political unless you're trying to reduce them. Mozilla justifiably did not want to work with someone who opposes certain human rights (including those of other employees), and that shouldn't be controversial or political.
- Levitz 3y ago
  What do human rights have to do with any of this? Isn't this about trademarks?
  - bloopernova 3y ago
    Are there humans involved? Then human rights are also involved.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    I think they're dredging up Brendan Eich's opposition to gay marriage. But no, the latest kerfuffle isn't trademarks, either. If you're interested, it's all over r/rust.
    - smt88 3y ago
      I wasn't dredging it up. I was replying to someone who dredged it up first.

kuu 3y ago

More context (by dang): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583742

noobdev9000 3y ago

Rust was always a corporation/FAANG language when you looked at contributors and sponsors, so it's probably not real reason, I mean it is clear async was rushed out for AWS/Amazon and everyone celebrated it nonetheless. People like to hide motives

pests 3y ago
I'm curious to the story behind async being rushed out for Amazon
- orra 3y ago
  The Amazon bit is new, but it's a pervasive myth that Rust's async was rushed. Also, that Pin<T> was a design mistake. However, this is very strongly refuted. See [edit: warning: abrasively worded post by withoutboats] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
tracker1 3y ago
Considering how long it took for async, and the depth of proposals, I wouldn't call it rushed at all.

lordswork 3y ago

Even more context: https://github.com/crablang/crab/issues/14 https://github.com/crablang/crab/issues/14