4 ms·

We here in Iran have an extra problem. I'll explain: Apple's App store, does not work in Iran, you cannot download anything from the app store (you get the fam

by ya3r 15y ago

We here in Iran have an extra problem. I'll explain: Apple's App store, does not work in Iran, you cannot download anything from the app store (you get the famous 1009 error). But many people like myself have iPhones and iPads. Is it okay to pirate iOS apps? Mathwork's website will not load if you try to access it from an IP address form Iran. Neither they sell their widely used software (Matlab) in academics to Iranians. I wonder am I guilty to pirate Matlab? Also many other services including Paypal, Google's Android Market and Amazon are the same. I wonder what if I want to read the famous `Art of Computer Programming`? Am I guilty if I pirate it?

muuh-gnu 15y ago
> I wonder am I guilty to pirate Matlab? If you otherwise support the concept of intellectual property, you are. If you believe that Matlab is MathWorks "property", MathWorks is not obliged to sell you their property, and if you take what you believe is their property against their will, you are guilty. If you dont believe in intellectual property, then everything is allright.
- pooriaazimi 15y ago
  The world does not work like that; it's not easy to judge other people's actions unless you step into their shoes. I guess if it took you 45 minutes just to send an email, or 3 days to download Apple's new OS to develop/test on (Mountain Lion - around 4GB), then you wouldn't see the piracy issue (in countries that there are absolutely no alternatives) black and white anymore.
  - muuh-gnu 15y ago
    I am nut "judging" him. He didnt give enough information to answer his question. My answer was that whether he should feel guilty or not depends on whether he supports intellectual property or not. I, for one, do not support the concept of intellectual property at all. If you ask me, copying Matlab is perfectly OK. But if he does support intellectual property, then he should accept the fact that MathWorks doesnt want to sell to him because he is an Iranian. He can not both support intellectual property _and_ simply make the excuse to steal because they refuse to sell. If that worked, he could also argue that it is ok to pirate because they refuse to sell for $5.
    - pooriaazimi 15y ago
      Actually it was clear that your post was not accusational, but rather a genuine question. I didn't mean to respond with a bad tone... sorry about that. If MathWorks didn't want to sell something to me (because they don't like the looks of roots of me), I wouldn't buy it even if my life depended on it (an ego thing) – the problem here is that MathWorks, Google, Apple, Amazon and other companies want to sell to me (it's their job, and I don't think they are any more racist than the average American!), but their it's government that prevents them. This is where you and I differ slightly: I support MathWork's IP, but at the same time I know that they can't sell to me only because of US sanctions. I copy Matlab (not really - I use Mathematica) and I see no moral dilemma here.
- baltcode 15y ago
  Matlab is considered MathWorks "property" because of the IP laws. These IP laws have jurisdiction over areas and peoples that are governed by the legislation that adopt these laws. Why would people who are not governed and protected by the legislations and laws (to do business etc.) of particular authorities be obligated to obey their laws? I am speaking rhetorically, of course, and I do want to support actual innovators to be paid for their efforts.
pavelkaroukin 15y ago
We have similar problems in Belarus. I can not talk for Iranians, since it might be different there. But in Belarus, country close to the center of Europe continent, located on intersection of major roads between east and west, we are in a quite similar position. No PayPal, no Apple, even Microsoft is represented only via Ukrainian office (i.e. office located in another country!) And this happens there because people do nothing about it. We have corruption there, presidential clan, which holds most of valuable businesses out there (oil refining, minerals extraction, weapons trade). I've been there, I had an great idea, that together we can change situation, get new government, build businesses. But after 2 years I realized - simply nobody care. Let put it this way - If I live in bum's family, should I blame fancy restaurant management for not giving me access to it? Probably, no. Same case with Belarus - it is not an excuse for pirating software. Instead, Belorussians should fix their country first. And in the mean time, if you really need to make work done, there is bunch of open source software. Use it. It might sucks comparing to propriate ones, but you can use it to make work done. There is no excuse for stealing.
- CaptainZapp 15y ago
  The cause is probably very different: While Iran suffers very heavy economic sanctions (i.e. Banking with Iran is virtually impossible) the reason Belarus is so neglected is that major companies just don't give a shit about this specific market. Not sure if this difference really matters at the end of the day and I can sure feel your pain.
  - pavelkaroukin 15y ago
    Well.. I tried to make two points =) - there are no excuses for stealing property - if your country is excluded from worldwide business, it is your problem first of all, not company's, which have problems selling in your country.
    - alextgordon 15y ago
      I don't like the assumption that companies are against piracy in markets they do not sell in. I sell software. If my payment processor doesn't accept payment from your country, I don't mind if you pirate the software instead. You are not "stealing" from me, since I cannot sell anything to you. Perhaps, instead of assuming that all companies are run by MPAA-style hardliners, it would be better to email the company and ask them what their position is. They might even give you a free license.

by ya3r 15y ago

muuh-gnu 15y ago

> I wonder am I guilty to pirate Matlab? If you otherwise support the concept of intellectual property, you are. If you believe that Matlab is MathWorks "property", MathWorks is not obliged to sell you their property, and if you take what you believe is their property against their will, you are guilty. If you dont believe in intellectual property, then everything is allright.

pooriaazimi 15y ago
The world does not work like that; it's not easy to judge other people's actions unless you step into their shoes. I guess if it took you 45 minutes just to send an email, or 3 days to download Apple's new OS to develop/test on (Mountain Lion - around 4GB), then you wouldn't see the piracy issue (in countries that there are absolutely no alternatives) black and white anymore.
- muuh-gnu 15y ago
  I am nut "judging" him. He didnt give enough information to answer his question. My answer was that whether he should feel guilty or not depends on whether he supports intellectual property or not. I, for one, do not support the concept of intellectual property at all. If you ask me, copying Matlab is perfectly OK. But if he does support intellectual property, then he should accept the fact that MathWorks doesnt want to sell to him because he is an Iranian. He can not both support intellectual property _and_ simply make the excuse to steal because they refuse to sell. If that worked, he could also argue that it is ok to pirate because they refuse to sell for $5.
  - pooriaazimi 15y ago
    Actually it was clear that your post was not accusational, but rather a genuine question. I didn't mean to respond with a bad tone... sorry about that. If MathWorks didn't want to sell something to me (because they don't like the looks of roots of me), I wouldn't buy it even if my life depended on it (an ego thing) – the problem here is that MathWorks, Google, Apple, Amazon and other companies want to sell to me (it's their job, and I don't think they are any more racist than the average American!), but their it's government that prevents them. This is where you and I differ slightly: I support MathWork's IP, but at the same time I know that they can't sell to me only because of US sanctions. I copy Matlab (not really - I use Mathematica) and I see no moral dilemma here.
baltcode 15y ago
Matlab is considered MathWorks "property" because of the IP laws. These IP laws have jurisdiction over areas and peoples that are governed by the legislation that adopt these laws. Why would people who are not governed and protected by the legislations and laws (to do business etc.) of particular authorities be obligated to obey their laws? I am speaking rhetorically, of course, and I do want to support actual innovators to be paid for their efforts.

pavelkaroukin 15y ago

We have similar problems in Belarus. I can not talk for Iranians, since it might be different there. But in Belarus, country close to the center of Europe continent, located on intersection of major roads between east and west, we are in a quite similar position. No PayPal, no Apple, even Microsoft is represented only via Ukrainian office (i.e. office located in another country!) And this happens there because people do nothing about it. We have corruption there, presidential clan, which holds most of valuable businesses out there (oil refining, minerals extraction, weapons trade). I've been there, I had an great idea, that together we can change situation, get new government, build businesses. But after 2 years I realized - simply nobody care. Let put it this way - If I live in bum's family, should I blame fancy restaurant management for not giving me access to it? Probably, no. Same case with Belarus - it is not an excuse for pirating software. Instead, Belorussians should fix their country first. And in the mean time, if you really need to make work done, there is bunch of open source software. Use it. It might sucks comparing to propriate ones, but you can use it to make work done. There is no excuse for stealing.

CaptainZapp 15y ago
The cause is probably very different: While Iran suffers very heavy economic sanctions (i.e. Banking with Iran is virtually impossible) the reason Belarus is so neglected is that major companies just don't give a shit about this specific market. Not sure if this difference really matters at the end of the day and I can sure feel your pain.
- pavelkaroukin 15y ago
  Well.. I tried to make two points =) - there are no excuses for stealing property - if your country is excluded from worldwide business, it is your problem first of all, not company's, which have problems selling in your country.
  - alextgordon 15y ago
    I don't like the assumption that companies are against piracy in markets they do not sell in. I sell software. If my payment processor doesn't accept payment from your country, I don't mind if you pirate the software instead. You are not "stealing" from me, since I cannot sell anything to you. Perhaps, instead of assuming that all companies are run by MPAA-style hardliners, it would be better to email the company and ask them what their position is. They might even give you a free license.