8 ms·

I hate social media with a passion. In 2000 using msn, yahoo messenger and chat rooms was a joy. Browsing the web was such fun, exploring and finding new inform

by asim 3y ago

I hate social media with a passion. In 2000 using msn, yahoo messenger and chat rooms was a joy. Browsing the web was such fun, exploring and finding new information and websites. In 2005 MySpace became all the rage and something shifted. It was the start of the "me" generation. Facebook amplified this and it became all the rage to ask "are you on Facebook?" at parties. Everything was new and exciting but we also had no idea what we were about to get into. The feed became an addictive creation that twitter then took to some next level. The "For you" tab is a joke. It's a way to continue to drive clicks, likes, retweets. All of this needs to end now. I honestly don't have the answer but I know part of it is probably less technology, less staring at screens and almost zero social media consumption. I so badly want to escape.

lynx23 3y ago
Well, quit, and be done with it. The problem with addicts is that some of them somehow think it is the responsibility of the society to outlaw whatever they are addicted to. Nope. The "me" generation tells you: get your act together and stop making others responsible for your decisions.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Sadly we've enfeebled the other options. Not being on social (at least the messaging platforms) media makes it tough to maintain social relationships. It can be done, of course, but with friction. It's also how a lot of orgs communicate with the world, annoyingly.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    If I want to use WhatsApp or Messenger as a messaging tool, nothing forces me to follow any toxic feeds. I can just use WhatsApp and Messanger as a plain inbox and do not have to care about reading the FB feed. I am not so sure about Twitter, but I guess you can also use the DM features without having to dive headlong into flamey feeds.
  - 9dev 3y ago
    Asking out of curiosity: is Twitter the medium of choice in your social circle? Everyone I know uses messengers to communicate, and while I know lots of my friends use Instagram, you don’t have to to participate.
  - throwbadubadu 3y ago
    There are so many people wanting to escape, but then also again claiming this. But it is an excuse: there are so many electronic good alternatives for friend cycles to stay connected if they want where you still can keep off social media.. And tbh, we did this well before even without those, and there was even a time we did this without mobile phones but just landline and mail... Just try it for a while, it really still works. If social relationships cannot be maintained without social media, I have no doubt, it is the wrong social relationships "maintained".
    - dbspin 3y ago
      > there are so many electronic good alternatives for friend cycles to stay connected if they want where you still can keep off social media.. Network effects just don't work like this. I suspect thinking that they do is related to the kinds of friendships the commenter has - small, intense, long term group friendships; and proximity friendships. Personally I don't have the social capital to pull the dozens of people I keep in regular contact with off their preferred platform and into a new one. Very few people do. And I value those relationships far more than I hate the platforms that maintain them. > If social relationships cannot be maintained without social media, I have no doubt, it is the wrong social relationships "maintained". This is a value judgement, and not an argument. I have strong relationships with friends and former partners, as well as family, that I've maintained for decades through platforms like messenger - which is awful but ubiquitous - with real people who live across the world. We do meet when possible, but it's often years apart, and there's no one 'core group'. These are real world, profound friendships with people I met in person, lived or worked or studied with for years and care about. I completely agree with the characterisation of the harms wrought by social media. But prior to social media, more than a very few distant friendships were all but impossible to maintain. And when you lost contact with an old friend, you could never be quite certain if they had lost interest, were too busy, or had perhaps died or suffered some great setback in life.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        >This is a value judgement, and not an argument. Value judgements are the ultimate arguments. In the end, nothing else matters aside from the kind of values we want to uphold.
  - HEmanZ 3y ago
    People used to be able to maintain large remote friend circles before the telegram was invented. If they could do it by snail mail, you can do it with a phone and no social media.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Not when all others that you want to reach have switched to social media.
      - lynx23 3y ago
        They disconnected their phone number and switched to social media? Or did they discontinue their postal address and switch to social media? I am sort of confused what you are trying to say.
        coldtea 3y ago
        They're spending their time on social media (instead of meeting friends and going out as much), they preferentially make their arrangements when going on and keeping touch on social media, they will often actively snub or forget people outside social media, and even if you manage to get time with them face to face, they're likely to discuss social media drama or just stare at their social media smartphone screen.
        lynx23 3y ago
        OK, but given the behaviour you describe, why do you miss them, then? Sounds like these people dont add anything to your life, or at least dont really want to add something, which is also reason enough to not care.
        coldtea 3y ago
        Because "these people" is most people. So minimizes the chances of finding people to "add something to your life". This is one result... https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-soci... https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/loneliness-in-america https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/loneliness-in-america
- blrwxt 3y ago
  Gamification, group think, mob voting and censoring dissenters exist in other areas that you cannot escape. GitHub is an example. Mobile service providers outsourced their customer "service" to open forums. Mailing lists have been replaced by "Discourse" or unsearchable Telegram and Gitter channels. Nothing has a history any longer.
  - q87b 3y ago
    Discourse or Discord? Discourse is nicely searchable and in many ways more user-friendly and sustainable than mailing lists.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    I don't quite get how you perceive GitHub as toxic social environment, but to each their own... All I sometimes get is a rejected PR, which is definitely not toxic but just the reality of things. I get your grief with Mailing lists though. The forced move from lists to web forums was pretty much a downer for me. Actually, I left every community which did that. I am too old to browser a bunch of web forums each day. If the new kids like that, let 'em play with eachother...
- coldtea 3y ago
  >The problem with addicts is that some of them somehow think it is the responsibility of the society to outlaw whatever they are addicted to. Nope. On the other hand, the problem is with "everyone for themselves" solutions is that they're not enough to address an issue that affects you (and society in general in systemic ways) even if you personaly don't use the medium.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    Source?
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Also need a source that water is wet? This just requires thinking, it's not based on the results of some lab experiment.
      - lynx23 3y ago
        You're claiming that something I dont care about is affecting my life in subtle ways I dont realize. When I ask you to back that up, you effectively say I am too stupid to get it on my own. Well, my point stands: You are claiming things and have nothing to back that up, and expect to be taken seriously?
        peteradio 3y ago
        Credit card companies have created a system where if you don't use them you are a loser, that's an example of what can happen. I can't prove OPs point about whether it affects you or not but in principle it might not, you might benefit from that status quo.
        lynx23 3y ago
        Can you explain, how is someone a "loser" if they don't use a credit card? Buying stuff on credit was never standard around where I live. Yet, for internet purchases, sure, but for most other things, we actually never adopted credit cards. We finally have debit cards, which is nice for the occasional internet purchase. But I see no extra pressure in my society to actually own and use a credit card.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  That’s fine when it’s a minority issue, when it affects everyone it IS societies responsibility to fix it. That’s the kind of stiff society exists for
haunter 3y ago
>The "For you" tab is a joke >I so badly want to escape. Then why do you click on it? I like Twitter still because I just see what I follow and that's all.
- kjeksfjes 3y ago
  Exactly. While my usage of social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook is somewhat sporadic, often with months in between, I find they serve their purpose well when needed. I've seen some toxicity on Twitter, it's not pervasive enough that I can't ignore it. As for Facebook, I predominantly use it as a tool for staying informed about my connections, checking their updates and occasionally even ensuring their well-being. I fail to see how an absolute withdrawal from social media has benefits over trying to manage and cultivate a more mindful approach.
seanhunter 3y ago
> I honestly don't have the answer 1) Delete your facebook account. It takes a month (because they don't let you delete immediately) but you won't miss it. 2) Leave twitter. I believe social media is a net negative for society so I did the above. You can take responsibility for your own situation and do the same.
- asim 3y ago
  I don't have Facebook. That went like 10 years ago. I still have twitter but deleted an account with 3k followers and returned to follow just the things I care about quietly. Still that scrolling behaviour gets me. My consumption is drastically lower than it was but at the same time I think it can be better and part of that is reframing how we get the information we're consuming on social media.
- dbspin 3y ago
  That's not a good solution for most people. Twitter I can delete. I don't browse facebook, I try not to browse instagram - but these platform's messaging facilities, along with whatsapp, google chat, signal, telegram and more are used daily by my friends and family to communicate. Sure you can simply cut off those who don't use your preferred platform. But I've seen what happens to people who do that - when the first facebook backlash occurred back in the late 2000s. They disappear from the real world 'social graph' of their non-local friends. Of course it would be better if everyone used one, encrypted messaging app. But thats not likely to happen any time soon. Of course social media is a poison, as OP pointed out. But its utility for low effort passive relationship maintenance with my old friends from college, jobs, school etc is an essential part of my social life. I suspect thats true for millions of people.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    > Sure you can simply cut off those who don't use your preferred platform. But I've seen what happens to people who do that - when the first facebook backlash occurred back in the late 2000s. They disappear from the real world 'social graph' of their non-local friends. Everyone is at least on Whatsapp, Signal or Line. Just ask for their number... if you don't think it's worth asking, that's probably because they're not your friends at all.
falsandtru 3y ago
"For you" tab of GitHub is a worst. GitHub has been forced and withdrawn it repeatedly and is still waiting for an opportunity to force it. Eventually GitHub will delete the "Following" tab and force the "For you" tab again.
- asim 3y ago
  Tbh it's about as useful as the trending page is. Which is not very useful. These things could be so much better but GitHub is just copycatting at this point. It used to be a leader in great UX.
surgical_fire 3y ago
> I so badly want to escape. Why do you keep using it then? It's an honest question. I tried using Facebook many years ago, but I found it extremely boring, and only served for me to dismay at what some people I respect posted online. So I abandoned it, didn't even bother deleting my account. I just never went back there. I never even created a Twitter account. Only time I ever browse it is when someone sends me a link to something there. I look at it and leave. I always thought the idea and implementation was repulsive. I am always puzzled why people use those sites. Doubly so when they voice displeasure at doing so, such as yourself.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mfru 3y ago
  because it is addictive. i only quit because i got banned without reason and got auto-rejected when appealing.
koonsolo 3y ago
Check out Discord. All the social media that you mention are all about "look at me", with a competition of getting the most likes and comments. Discord is basically small independent servers, where discussions and information primes over users. If you have some toxic people, they just get kicked out. I run a server with a bit more than 1000 members, most of them teenagers. I'm always surprised how nice and friendly they are to other strangers on the net.
- asim 3y ago
  I think discord works well but at the same time isn't for my generation. I was reluctant to adopt slack and used it for work/oss community building but found it just wasn't a fit for me. I'm still someone who enjoys email and async comms. I also prefer conversating in small groups. So having this kind of fixed limit feels right. Like 20 people or less. Totally private. I also don't really want to talk to strangers. I'd like it to be network driven starting with real people I know or have met IRL.
  - koonsolo 3y ago
    I understand your point about Discord. I'm also not on other servers, only the one I manage :D. It's too chatty for an old guy like me :D. In that case I guess WhatsApp is what most people use for groups that you know.
SirMaster 3y ago
> In 2000 using msn, yahoo messenger and chat rooms was a joy. I dunno, Discord seems like this still to me now.
beej71 3y ago
I'm sure there's no one size that fits all, but we've replaced it with small groups. For example, my family is in a discord channel. My SO's family is in a group text. My local motorcycle buddies are in a group text. My college friends from way back are on Slack. My expat coworkers from my last job are on Slack. My high school pals I'm still in touch with are on Discord. And I get feed news on Mastodon, which is non-algorithmic. And it's great. I still have accounts on those other sites for DM purposes, but I've deleted most of my past content and the rest is inoffensive stuff parked there just in case someone looks for a job or something. I definitely miss out on the day-to-day of a lot of people I know, and that's a loss. But I still feel I have a net gain for my own mental health. Again, this is only what works for me. YMMV.
- asim 3y ago
  This. So you're highlighting what I feel and see. The need to manage small groups in a singular way. Maybe that's not even worth it but it's all spread across different platforms. I don't really know if a bridge for them all in one place is useful or whether it's just about having the one place to have these private groups.

by asim 3y ago

lynx23 3y ago

Well, quit, and be done with it. The problem with addicts is that some of them somehow think it is the responsibility of the society to outlaw whatever they are addicted to. Nope. The "me" generation tells you: get your act together and stop making others responsible for your decisions.

CalRobert 3y ago
Sadly we've enfeebled the other options. Not being on social (at least the messaging platforms) media makes it tough to maintain social relationships. It can be done, of course, but with friction. It's also how a lot of orgs communicate with the world, annoyingly.
- lynx23 3y ago
  If I want to use WhatsApp or Messenger as a messaging tool, nothing forces me to follow any toxic feeds. I can just use WhatsApp and Messanger as a plain inbox and do not have to care about reading the FB feed. I am not so sure about Twitter, but I guess you can also use the DM features without having to dive headlong into flamey feeds.
- 9dev 3y ago
  Asking out of curiosity: is Twitter the medium of choice in your social circle? Everyone I know uses messengers to communicate, and while I know lots of my friends use Instagram, you don’t have to to participate.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  There are so many people wanting to escape, but then also again claiming this. But it is an excuse: there are so many electronic good alternatives for friend cycles to stay connected if they want where you still can keep off social media.. And tbh, we did this well before even without those, and there was even a time we did this without mobile phones but just landline and mail... Just try it for a while, it really still works. If social relationships cannot be maintained without social media, I have no doubt, it is the wrong social relationships "maintained".
  - dbspin 3y ago
    > there are so many electronic good alternatives for friend cycles to stay connected if they want where you still can keep off social media.. Network effects just don't work like this. I suspect thinking that they do is related to the kinds of friendships the commenter has - small, intense, long term group friendships; and proximity friendships. Personally I don't have the social capital to pull the dozens of people I keep in regular contact with off their preferred platform and into a new one. Very few people do. And I value those relationships far more than I hate the platforms that maintain them. > If social relationships cannot be maintained without social media, I have no doubt, it is the wrong social relationships "maintained". This is a value judgement, and not an argument. I have strong relationships with friends and former partners, as well as family, that I've maintained for decades through platforms like messenger - which is awful but ubiquitous - with real people who live across the world. We do meet when possible, but it's often years apart, and there's no one 'core group'. These are real world, profound friendships with people I met in person, lived or worked or studied with for years and care about. I completely agree with the characterisation of the harms wrought by social media. But prior to social media, more than a very few distant friendships were all but impossible to maintain. And when you lost contact with an old friend, you could never be quite certain if they had lost interest, were too busy, or had perhaps died or suffered some great setback in life.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >This is a value judgement, and not an argument. Value judgements are the ultimate arguments. In the end, nothing else matters aside from the kind of values we want to uphold.
- HEmanZ 3y ago
  People used to be able to maintain large remote friend circles before the telegram was invented. If they could do it by snail mail, you can do it with a phone and no social media.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Not when all others that you want to reach have switched to social media.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      They disconnected their phone number and switched to social media? Or did they discontinue their postal address and switch to social media? I am sort of confused what you are trying to say.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        They're spending their time on social media (instead of meeting friends and going out as much), they preferentially make their arrangements when going on and keeping touch on social media, they will often actively snub or forget people outside social media, and even if you manage to get time with them face to face, they're likely to discuss social media drama or just stare at their social media smartphone screen.
        lynx23 3y ago
        OK, but given the behaviour you describe, why do you miss them, then? Sounds like these people dont add anything to your life, or at least dont really want to add something, which is also reason enough to not care.
        coldtea 3y ago
        Because "these people" is most people. So minimizes the chances of finding people to "add something to your life". This is one result... https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-soci... https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/loneliness-in-america https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/loneliness-in-america
blrwxt 3y ago
Gamification, group think, mob voting and censoring dissenters exist in other areas that you cannot escape. GitHub is an example. Mobile service providers outsourced their customer "service" to open forums. Mailing lists have been replaced by "Discourse" or unsearchable Telegram and Gitter channels. Nothing has a history any longer.
- q87b 3y ago
  Discourse or Discord? Discourse is nicely searchable and in many ways more user-friendly and sustainable than mailing lists.
- lynx23 3y ago
  I don't quite get how you perceive GitHub as toxic social environment, but to each their own... All I sometimes get is a rejected PR, which is definitely not toxic but just the reality of things. I get your grief with Mailing lists though. The forced move from lists to web forums was pretty much a downer for me. Actually, I left every community which did that. I am too old to browser a bunch of web forums each day. If the new kids like that, let 'em play with eachother...
coldtea 3y ago
>The problem with addicts is that some of them somehow think it is the responsibility of the society to outlaw whatever they are addicted to. Nope. On the other hand, the problem is with "everyone for themselves" solutions is that they're not enough to address an issue that affects you (and society in general in systemic ways) even if you personaly don't use the medium.
- lynx23 3y ago
  Source?
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Also need a source that water is wet? This just requires thinking, it's not based on the results of some lab experiment.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      You're claiming that something I dont care about is affecting my life in subtle ways I dont realize. When I ask you to back that up, you effectively say I am too stupid to get it on my own. Well, my point stands: You are claiming things and have nothing to back that up, and expect to be taken seriously?
      - peteradio 3y ago
        Credit card companies have created a system where if you don't use them you are a loser, that's an example of what can happen. I can't prove OPs point about whether it affects you or not but in principle it might not, you might benefit from that status quo.
        lynx23 3y ago
        Can you explain, how is someone a "loser" if they don't use a credit card? Buying stuff on credit was never standard around where I live. Yet, for internet purchases, sure, but for most other things, we actually never adopted credit cards. We finally have debit cards, which is nice for the occasional internet purchase. But I see no extra pressure in my society to actually own and use a credit card.
edgyquant 3y ago
That’s fine when it’s a minority issue, when it affects everyone it IS societies responsibility to fix it. That’s the kind of stiff society exists for

haunter 3y ago

>The "For you" tab is a joke >I so badly want to escape. Then why do you click on it? I like Twitter still because I just see what I follow and that's all.

kjeksfjes 3y ago
Exactly. While my usage of social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook is somewhat sporadic, often with months in between, I find they serve their purpose well when needed. I've seen some toxicity on Twitter, it's not pervasive enough that I can't ignore it. As for Facebook, I predominantly use it as a tool for staying informed about my connections, checking their updates and occasionally even ensuring their well-being. I fail to see how an absolute withdrawal from social media has benefits over trying to manage and cultivate a more mindful approach.

seanhunter 3y ago

> I honestly don't have the answer 1) Delete your facebook account. It takes a month (because they don't let you delete immediately) but you won't miss it. 2) Leave twitter. I believe social media is a net negative for society so I did the above. You can take responsibility for your own situation and do the same.

asim 3y ago
I don't have Facebook. That went like 10 years ago. I still have twitter but deleted an account with 3k followers and returned to follow just the things I care about quietly. Still that scrolling behaviour gets me. My consumption is drastically lower than it was but at the same time I think it can be better and part of that is reframing how we get the information we're consuming on social media.
dbspin 3y ago
That's not a good solution for most people. Twitter I can delete. I don't browse facebook, I try not to browse instagram - but these platform's messaging facilities, along with whatsapp, google chat, signal, telegram and more are used daily by my friends and family to communicate. Sure you can simply cut off those who don't use your preferred platform. But I've seen what happens to people who do that - when the first facebook backlash occurred back in the late 2000s. They disappear from the real world 'social graph' of their non-local friends. Of course it would be better if everyone used one, encrypted messaging app. But thats not likely to happen any time soon. Of course social media is a poison, as OP pointed out. But its utility for low effort passive relationship maintenance with my old friends from college, jobs, school etc is an essential part of my social life. I suspect thats true for millions of people.
- sgu999 3y ago
  > Sure you can simply cut off those who don't use your preferred platform. But I've seen what happens to people who do that - when the first facebook backlash occurred back in the late 2000s. They disappear from the real world 'social graph' of their non-local friends. Everyone is at least on Whatsapp, Signal or Line. Just ask for their number... if you don't think it's worth asking, that's probably because they're not your friends at all.

falsandtru 3y ago

"For you" tab of GitHub is a worst. GitHub has been forced and withdrawn it repeatedly and is still waiting for an opportunity to force it. Eventually GitHub will delete the "Following" tab and force the "For you" tab again.

asim 3y ago
Tbh it's about as useful as the trending page is. Which is not very useful. These things could be so much better but GitHub is just copycatting at this point. It used to be a leader in great UX.

surgical_fire 3y ago

> I so badly want to escape. Why do you keep using it then? It's an honest question. I tried using Facebook many years ago, but I found it extremely boring, and only served for me to dismay at what some people I respect posted online. So I abandoned it, didn't even bother deleting my account. I just never went back there. I never even created a Twitter account. Only time I ever browse it is when someone sends me a link to something there. I look at it and leave. I always thought the idea and implementation was repulsive. I am always puzzled why people use those sites. Doubly so when they voice displeasure at doing so, such as yourself.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mfru 3y ago
because it is addictive. i only quit because i got banned without reason and got auto-rejected when appealing.

koonsolo 3y ago

Check out Discord. All the social media that you mention are all about "look at me", with a competition of getting the most likes and comments. Discord is basically small independent servers, where discussions and information primes over users. If you have some toxic people, they just get kicked out. I run a server with a bit more than 1000 members, most of them teenagers. I'm always surprised how nice and friendly they are to other strangers on the net.

asim 3y ago
I think discord works well but at the same time isn't for my generation. I was reluctant to adopt slack and used it for work/oss community building but found it just wasn't a fit for me. I'm still someone who enjoys email and async comms. I also prefer conversating in small groups. So having this kind of fixed limit feels right. Like 20 people or less. Totally private. I also don't really want to talk to strangers. I'd like it to be network driven starting with real people I know or have met IRL.
- koonsolo 3y ago
  I understand your point about Discord. I'm also not on other servers, only the one I manage :D. It's too chatty for an old guy like me :D. In that case I guess WhatsApp is what most people use for groups that you know.

SirMaster 3y ago

> In 2000 using msn, yahoo messenger and chat rooms was a joy. I dunno, Discord seems like this still to me now.

beej71 3y ago

I'm sure there's no one size that fits all, but we've replaced it with small groups. For example, my family is in a discord channel. My SO's family is in a group text. My local motorcycle buddies are in a group text. My college friends from way back are on Slack. My expat coworkers from my last job are on Slack. My high school pals I'm still in touch with are on Discord. And I get feed news on Mastodon, which is non-algorithmic. And it's great. I still have accounts on those other sites for DM purposes, but I've deleted most of my past content and the rest is inoffensive stuff parked there just in case someone looks for a job or something. I definitely miss out on the day-to-day of a lot of people I know, and that's a loss. But I still feel I have a net gain for my own mental health. Again, this is only what works for me. YMMV.

asim 3y ago
This. So you're highlighting what I feel and see. The need to manage small groups in a singular way. Maybe that's not even worth it but it's all spread across different platforms. I don't really know if a bridge for them all in one place is useful or whether it's just about having the one place to have these private groups.