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So, you are generally advising against the use of local guides? And propose to cut the sherpas out of the considerable Mt. Everest business all together? Why?

by hef19898 3y ago

carlosjobim 3y ago
Is that what the poster is saying? No, and you know it. Just call it for what it is: assisted climbing. The persons didn't climb the mountain in a sense of the sport, they were assisted. You can't claim you ran a marathon if you hitched a ride along the way.
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  Some kind of purist attitude? Marathon runners run the whole way, but a community of support accompanied them for years beforehand (and on the actual route!) Likewise, nobody is using a sedan chair to get to the summit. Everybody walks every step of the way?
  - francisofascii 3y ago
    Well, not everyone. Sally Pittman was short roped for a few hours by a Sherpa. But still an achievement for her to reach the top. So your overall point is well taken.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    > Some kind of purist attitude? Absolutely! That is what sports, exploration and alpinism is about. People who had others to carry their stuff do not deserve to be mentioned together with those who climb by their own force. I've always found it ridiculous reading articles about this or that adventurer who conquered a mountain or peak, or the local alpinist who's back from climbing Everest - then as a side note "by the way, some sherpas carried all his/her stuff". I'm from a society where stolen valour is the norm, not the exception. For any accomplishment there will always be persons from certain families or a certain political party put forward and given all the merit and glory in media for the accomplishment, while those who actually did the work are to stay in the shadows and be quiet. Last year I watched the documentary "14 Peaks" where Nepalese led by Nirmal Purja where setting some mountaineering records as climbers, and they were extremely bitter for the lack of recognition, which I fully understand. Corruption is the right word.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      The really disgusting bit is not the favt of being carried up a mountain, it is the neglect of giving the local guides the credit they deserve. Last time i bothered to look, Sherpas held all Everest records: number of succesfull ascents, speed, you name it. That Sherpas, just to pick prominent example as locals in other regions share the same fate, don't get the recognition they deserve is not the people going on paid expeditions. It also the press and media not giving them credit. Basically all succesfull Himalayan expeditions, before Messner started to go full solo, relied on Sherpas or other local groups. Not properly mentioning those incredible mountaineers has a long tradition. One extended, too a much lesser degree, to guides from former Russia (looking at ypu, Krackauer). The Chinese alpinists, and to a lesser extent the Indians as well, defy that fact somewhat by virtue of simply being rich.
      - francisofascii 3y ago
        The Sherpas also get paid a fraction (maybe 20%) of what the Western guides get paid. Although to the Sherpas it is great pay and a coveted job.
- hef19898 3y ago
  >> normalizing using sherpas is deep corruption Said OP. I was not aware that climbing Mt. Everest was followijg some competitive sports rule set. As others pointed out, people being carried up there are rightfully ridiculed by the alpinist community. Using Sherpas is a way that local communities can actually benefit a little bit from rich people's tourism. I don't see anything wrong with that.
- francisofascii 3y ago
  There is also the question of using supplemental oxygen. Which I guess is the equivalent of running a marathon without stopping for liquids or gels.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Yeah, climbing one of those mountains without oxygen is hardcore. Doing it solo is certified badassery.

So, you are generally advising against the use of local guides? And propose to cut the sherpas out of the considerable Mt. Everest business all together? Why?

carlosjobim 3y ago

Is that what the poster is saying? No, and you know it. Just call it for what it is: assisted climbing. The persons didn't climb the mountain in a sense of the sport, they were assisted. You can't claim you ran a marathon if you hitched a ride along the way.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Some kind of purist attitude? Marathon runners run the whole way, but a community of support accompanied them for years beforehand (and on the actual route!) Likewise, nobody is using a sedan chair to get to the summit. Everybody walks every step of the way?
- francisofascii 3y ago
  Well, not everyone. Sally Pittman was short roped for a few hours by a Sherpa. But still an achievement for her to reach the top. So your overall point is well taken.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  > Some kind of purist attitude? Absolutely! That is what sports, exploration and alpinism is about. People who had others to carry their stuff do not deserve to be mentioned together with those who climb by their own force. I've always found it ridiculous reading articles about this or that adventurer who conquered a mountain or peak, or the local alpinist who's back from climbing Everest - then as a side note "by the way, some sherpas carried all his/her stuff". I'm from a society where stolen valour is the norm, not the exception. For any accomplishment there will always be persons from certain families or a certain political party put forward and given all the merit and glory in media for the accomplishment, while those who actually did the work are to stay in the shadows and be quiet. Last year I watched the documentary "14 Peaks" where Nepalese led by Nirmal Purja where setting some mountaineering records as climbers, and they were extremely bitter for the lack of recognition, which I fully understand. Corruption is the right word.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    The really disgusting bit is not the favt of being carried up a mountain, it is the neglect of giving the local guides the credit they deserve. Last time i bothered to look, Sherpas held all Everest records: number of succesfull ascents, speed, you name it. That Sherpas, just to pick prominent example as locals in other regions share the same fate, don't get the recognition they deserve is not the people going on paid expeditions. It also the press and media not giving them credit. Basically all succesfull Himalayan expeditions, before Messner started to go full solo, relied on Sherpas or other local groups. Not properly mentioning those incredible mountaineers has a long tradition. One extended, too a much lesser degree, to guides from former Russia (looking at ypu, Krackauer). The Chinese alpinists, and to a lesser extent the Indians as well, defy that fact somewhat by virtue of simply being rich.
    - francisofascii 3y ago
      The Sherpas also get paid a fraction (maybe 20%) of what the Western guides get paid. Although to the Sherpas it is great pay and a coveted job.
hef19898 3y ago
>> normalizing using sherpas is deep corruption Said OP. I was not aware that climbing Mt. Everest was followijg some competitive sports rule set. As others pointed out, people being carried up there are rightfully ridiculed by the alpinist community. Using Sherpas is a way that local communities can actually benefit a little bit from rich people's tourism. I don't see anything wrong with that.
francisofascii 3y ago
There is also the question of using supplemental oxygen. Which I guess is the equivalent of running a marathon without stopping for liquids or gels.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Yeah, climbing one of those mountains without oxygen is hardcore. Doing it solo is certified badassery.