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It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealth

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

midoridensha 3y ago
Restaurants in the US are absurdly expensive. Not only is the food expensive, but the 25% expected tip is ridiculous. (Tipping doesn't exist in Japan, and in Europe basically consists of rounding up, if any.) It's not just Japan; western Europe is also generally much cheaper for restaurants (when comparing similar quality). One big difference I see between the two is the level of service expected. In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something, and there generally seems to be less staff as a result, which reduces costs. Basically, this is just another way that America is broken compared to the rest of the developed world, and it's not just the strength of the dollar.
- techsupporter 3y ago
  > In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something... There are restaurants in Seattle that I've stopped visiting for anything beyond takeaway because my wife and I can't hold a conversation for more than a few minutes without being interrupted. It is very frustrating. On the other hand, when we have taken friends to the places we like that are far more laid back, at least one person has commented on how the service is "poor" or "inattentive." I think we are culturally used to being asked if we need service and are reticent to go find help or do for ourselves (except when it comes to using a machine at the grocery). So I'm not sure it's solely in search of a better tip, except that everything in a US restaurant is for that. Foodservice in Europe, broadly, is one of those amazing but unexpected things I tell people who are preparing to travel for the first time to really look at and try to enjoy. It's wonderful, in my opinion.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    >On the other hand, when we have taken friends to the places we like that are far more laid back, at least one person has commented on how the service is "poor" or "inattentive." This is the problem. Most American diners actually want the server to act like their best friend and constantly interrupt them. People like you are a minority. >Foodservice in Europe, broadly, is one of those amazing but unexpected things I tell people who are preparing to travel for the first time to really look at and try to enjoy. It's wonderful, in my opinion. I love it too, and the service here in Japan, but most Americans would hate it I think.
    - liotier 3y ago
      > Most American diners actually want the server to act like their best friend and constantly interrupt them Seriously ? Don't Americans see how fake it is ? The French waiter does its job curtly and efficiently, neither him nor I pretend we are fond of each other and that is perfectly fine.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        I just want my drinks kept relatively full, and if all that’s needed for that is a raised eyebrow or a nod, that doesn’t bother me. The key is perfecting the “walk slowly past checking” without verbally interrupting.
      - midoridensha 3y ago
        >Don't Americans see how fake it is ? I guess not. Many Americans want to be treated like they're royalty anyway; just look at how entitled they act in public. Expecting some server to wait on them hand and foot without even being asked is part of the entitlement mentality that is prevalent in America, I think.
      - wrp 3y ago
        When I eat in a restaurant, I want to be left in peace, so I prefer the Japanese restaurant experience. But I know I'm not the rule in America, maybe not even in the majority. If you watch American diners, it's clear that many enjoy the social interaction. Some will even sit at the counter instead of at a table in order to get more of it. My impression is that the waitresses who are good at maintaining banter with the customers are the ones who draw the most in tips.
- suction 3y ago
  [dead]
danielscrubs 3y ago
I got the feeling it has to do with rent and taxes, owning your own establishment helps. Being able to keep open even with few customers would drain all your resources within the same year in my city, but you hear these stories of businesses keeping open in Japan with prime real estate just because. I like that a lot, instead of the “everything is a chain” where I live. Im not sure why real estate moguls don’t have a field day, buying everything they see. Anyone knows? Is it the earthquakes and tsunamis? Exponential taxes on owning several properties?
- rale00 3y ago
  The real estate bubble in the 80s probably still has a lot to do with it. It took 2 decades for real estate prices to start to recover at all.
- suoduandao2 3y ago
  I always thought it was the shrinking population
janalsncm 3y ago
I have thought about this almost every time I have visited other countries (usually in Asia). Many times there are a number of employees standing around “doing nothing”. In America that would be considered fat to be trimmed. But the number of times I have walked around a big box store in the US trying to find someone who works there makes me feel that the American model actually cheapens the experience and having redundant employees allows the store to adapt to varying traffic flows. Americans seem to be used to this hollowing out but I don’t like it. Stores should not be vending machines. Anyways, I would really like to see a breakdown of costs between an American restaurant and various foreign ones. I suspect floor space cost is a big part of the difference.
- b112 3y ago
  This is a new thing, too. Even 20 years ago, it wasn't so bad.
  - Der_Einzige 3y ago
    I'm convinced that a lot of push to return to office was from rich people who were mad as fk that they took had to wait for stuff due to worker shortages.
- hcks 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jaipilot747 3y ago
    Don't think GP equated employees to lower class servants in their comment?
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    Not sure why you're viewing this as a class issue. If you work at the supermarket and can't find anyone to help with a purchase at the hardware store after work (or vice versa), you're suffering inconvenience despite being in the same class. Meanwhile, the people who are working there stocking/ cleaning/ etc are suffering constant interruptions by frustrated customers who can't find what they're looking for. On paper, their productivity looks poor because it takes them longer to perform any given task while the store is open and this is probably offered as an excuse to limit wage increases or promotions, since one can hardly write up a service ticket for every spontaneous customer inquiry.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
It’s risen / rising now
laratied 3y ago
I would really look at a chart of USD/Yen. My fav dining experiences were in Canada in 2000 when USD was so strong vs CAD everything on the menu was half off.

midoridensha 3y ago

Restaurants in the US are absurdly expensive. Not only is the food expensive, but the 25% expected tip is ridiculous. (Tipping doesn't exist in Japan, and in Europe basically consists of rounding up, if any.) It's not just Japan; western Europe is also generally much cheaper for restaurants (when comparing similar quality). One big difference I see between the two is the level of service expected. In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something, and there generally seems to be less staff as a result, which reduces costs. Basically, this is just another way that America is broken compared to the rest of the developed world, and it's not just the strength of the dollar.

techsupporter 3y ago
> In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something... There are restaurants in Seattle that I've stopped visiting for anything beyond takeaway because my wife and I can't hold a conversation for more than a few minutes without being interrupted. It is very frustrating. On the other hand, when we have taken friends to the places we like that are far more laid back, at least one person has commented on how the service is "poor" or "inattentive." I think we are culturally used to being asked if we need service and are reticent to go find help or do for ourselves (except when it comes to using a machine at the grocery). So I'm not sure it's solely in search of a better tip, except that everything in a US restaurant is for that. Foodservice in Europe, broadly, is one of those amazing but unexpected things I tell people who are preparing to travel for the first time to really look at and try to enjoy. It's wonderful, in my opinion.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >On the other hand, when we have taken friends to the places we like that are far more laid back, at least one person has commented on how the service is "poor" or "inattentive." This is the problem. Most American diners actually want the server to act like their best friend and constantly interrupt them. People like you are a minority. >Foodservice in Europe, broadly, is one of those amazing but unexpected things I tell people who are preparing to travel for the first time to really look at and try to enjoy. It's wonderful, in my opinion. I love it too, and the service here in Japan, but most Americans would hate it I think.
  - liotier 3y ago
    > Most American diners actually want the server to act like their best friend and constantly interrupt them Seriously ? Don't Americans see how fake it is ? The French waiter does its job curtly and efficiently, neither him nor I pretend we are fond of each other and that is perfectly fine.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      I just want my drinks kept relatively full, and if all that’s needed for that is a raised eyebrow or a nod, that doesn’t bother me. The key is perfecting the “walk slowly past checking” without verbally interrupting.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      >Don't Americans see how fake it is ? I guess not. Many Americans want to be treated like they're royalty anyway; just look at how entitled they act in public. Expecting some server to wait on them hand and foot without even being asked is part of the entitlement mentality that is prevalent in America, I think.
    - wrp 3y ago
      When I eat in a restaurant, I want to be left in peace, so I prefer the Japanese restaurant experience. But I know I'm not the rule in America, maybe not even in the majority. If you watch American diners, it's clear that many enjoy the social interaction. Some will even sit at the counter instead of at a table in order to get more of it. My impression is that the waitresses who are good at maintaining banter with the customers are the ones who draw the most in tips.
suction 3y ago
[dead]

danielscrubs 3y ago

I got the feeling it has to do with rent and taxes, owning your own establishment helps. Being able to keep open even with few customers would drain all your resources within the same year in my city, but you hear these stories of businesses keeping open in Japan with prime real estate just because. I like that a lot, instead of the “everything is a chain” where I live. Im not sure why real estate moguls don’t have a field day, buying everything they see. Anyone knows? Is it the earthquakes and tsunamis? Exponential taxes on owning several properties?

rale00 3y ago
The real estate bubble in the 80s probably still has a lot to do with it. It took 2 decades for real estate prices to start to recover at all.
suoduandao2 3y ago
I always thought it was the shrinking population

janalsncm 3y ago

I have thought about this almost every time I have visited other countries (usually in Asia). Many times there are a number of employees standing around “doing nothing”. In America that would be considered fat to be trimmed. But the number of times I have walked around a big box store in the US trying to find someone who works there makes me feel that the American model actually cheapens the experience and having redundant employees allows the store to adapt to varying traffic flows. Americans seem to be used to this hollowing out but I don’t like it. Stores should not be vending machines. Anyways, I would really like to see a breakdown of costs between an American restaurant and various foreign ones. I suspect floor space cost is a big part of the difference.

b112 3y ago
This is a new thing, too. Even 20 years ago, it wasn't so bad.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  I'm convinced that a lot of push to return to office was from rich people who were mad as fk that they took had to wait for stuff due to worker shortages.
hcks 3y ago
[flagged]
- jaipilot747 3y ago
  Don't think GP equated employees to lower class servants in their comment?
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Not sure why you're viewing this as a class issue. If you work at the supermarket and can't find anyone to help with a purchase at the hardware store after work (or vice versa), you're suffering inconvenience despite being in the same class. Meanwhile, the people who are working there stocking/ cleaning/ etc are suffering constant interruptions by frustrated customers who can't find what they're looking for. On paper, their productivity looks poor because it takes them longer to perform any given task while the store is open and this is probably offered as an excuse to limit wage increases or promotions, since one can hardly write up a service ticket for every spontaneous customer inquiry.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

It’s risen / rising now

laratied 3y ago

I would really look at a chart of USD/Yen. My fav dining experiences were in Canada in 2000 when USD was so strong vs CAD everything on the menu was half off.