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I know a small business running bespoke accounting software with a lineage predating the PC era. They have some very specialized, industry specific, reporting

I know a small business running bespoke accounting software with a lineage predating the PC era. They have some very specialized, industry specific, reporting and invoicing needs that can't be met with a general purpose purpose software. An application provides a great way to modernize their software without a full rewrite.

robomartin 3y ago
Of course, there are lots of businesses who fit this description. This is nothing new. That does not mean that millions don't benefit from and are happy using Quickbooks. Before the mob interprets what I am saying through their reality distortion field, I should note I am NOT hating on FOSS and defending closed-source software as general categories. There is such a thing as useful industry-standard software on both sides of that divide. And it is perfectly OK to point this out. This doesn't have to be a war. This shouldn't be twisted into hatred or attacks on FOSS or even non-FOSS software. Nobody has the moral high ground. There is no such thing. These are tools. Some are free and open, some are not. And that's perfectly OK. Sometimes a little critical thinking and reason is a good thing.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  Why are you so aggressive in your tone? > This is nothing new. That does not mean that millions don't benefit Nobody claimed this is new or that not millions benefit or are happy with QB (source needed though). > Before the mob interprets what I am saying through their reality distortion field Which mob? Reality distortion? Nobody was accusing you of hating FOSS, why do you feel you need to defend yourself? > This doesn't have to be a war. To me there was no indication it is a war. Why do you feel it is? > Nobody has the moral high ground. There is no such thing. Bold claim. There is no such thing as moral high ground?
  - wrycoder 3y ago
    Actually, I appreciate the definite opinions and colorful language. And, the POV expressed is realistic, IMO.
  - robomartin 3y ago
    > Why are you so aggressive in your tone? You are reading something into my comments that isn't there. Don't take it personally, none of it is aimed at the person I was replying to anyway. > source needed though Ah, the HN response when... Evident to anyone who actually knows anything about how businesses work. Still, here, go to page 5: https://www.codat.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Codat_Guide-to-Accounting-Software-Market_July-2020.pdf https://www.codat.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Codat_Guide-... This is for 2020. Numbers for 2023 are likely larger. Quickbooks offerings have a 75% dominance of the market. And, for a good reason. This is the standard I was talking about. Again, nobody gives a shit about FOSS, only us nerds. In other words, those of us who likely live two or more standard deviations from the mean. Go ask your local dentist if she gives a shit about FOSS. Everywhere else under the curve, people want to focus on their core business and get on with the job of making money, supporting their families, innovating and growing their business. Their accountant/CPA says "Use Quickbooks. It will make the process simpler". That's what they do. The cost is a rounding error for any non-trivial business. FOSS does not matter. What matters is solving a non-revenue-generating problem in a way that does not consume clock cycles and moving on to more important things. > Which mob? Reality distortion? Nobody was accusing you of hating FOSS, why do you feel you need to defend yourself? Saying anything even remotely in favor of paid closed-source software or hardware is considered "unholy" by a certain segment of the tech community. Online, they can be quite vocal and even aggressive. They generally lack what I call "real world sense of proportion and common sense" and behave as FOSS absolutists. At the extremes, it is a cult or a mob or a group of seriously misguided individuals who lack context. I love FOSS and support it as much as possible. I hope to be able to have the time to contribute to some of it (KiCAD, I have you at the top of the list!) when I retire. However, very frequently in business you have to make decisions based on what gets the job done so you can focus on what you were there to do in the first place. I have tons of examples of this. We have been licensing Solidworks almost since it came out. This amounts to tens of thousands of dollars per seat. Our SW Flow and Thermal simulation license probably cost tens of thousands of dollars per seat as well. And the same is the case for our SW CAM tools. I'd have to do the math, yet I would not be surprised to learn that the full suite of SW tools and SW cost us in the order of $75K to $100K to license and maintain over the years. And that was, and continues to be, the right decision. It's the right tool for the job. We get to focus on our core business of developing technology. We have immediate support and points of contact whenever we need something, anything. The software is good and always getting better. And it is a standard (much like Quickbooks is a standard). We actually pay for a Fusion360 license, yet, we've had difficulties using it in some cases because some of the work we do falls under ITAR regulations and the whole cloud thing can be a serious non-starter for that world. In other words, while it is cheaper, it's a non-starter because it would introduce more problems than we would ever care to deal with. Another example is paying for the Jetbrains tool suite. Excellent software. It works. We get to focus on other things that matter. Yeah, we also use VSCode where it makes sense. We pay for lots of other tools when it makes sense. Photoshop and the Adobe suite is another example of something that is still a standard. In business, any second spent focusing on anything other than your core revenue-generating mission is a second wasted. While FOSS can be great when it works well, anyone with any experience has stories of problems that can burn time at a massive rate. There's a place for everything. > There is no such thing as moral high ground? Some feel that being a FOSS absolutist is a moral high ground. There is no such thing as a moral high ground purely based on whether software is free and/or open source or paid and/or closed source. To state it in the simplest possible terms: You pick-up and use a screwdriver because it gets the job done. It matters not if that screwdriver was given to you for free along with full design files on how to make your own or you bought it at the store. What matters is that it let you tighten the screw and you move on.

robomartin 3y ago

Of course, there are lots of businesses who fit this description. This is nothing new. That does not mean that millions don't benefit from and are happy using Quickbooks. Before the mob interprets what I am saying through their reality distortion field, I should note I am NOT hating on FOSS and defending closed-source software as general categories. There is such a thing as useful industry-standard software on both sides of that divide. And it is perfectly OK to point this out. This doesn't have to be a war. This shouldn't be twisted into hatred or attacks on FOSS or even non-FOSS software. Nobody has the moral high ground. There is no such thing. These are tools. Some are free and open, some are not. And that's perfectly OK. Sometimes a little critical thinking and reason is a good thing.

master-lincoln 3y ago
Why are you so aggressive in your tone? > This is nothing new. That does not mean that millions don't benefit Nobody claimed this is new or that not millions benefit or are happy with QB (source needed though). > Before the mob interprets what I am saying through their reality distortion field Which mob? Reality distortion? Nobody was accusing you of hating FOSS, why do you feel you need to defend yourself? > This doesn't have to be a war. To me there was no indication it is a war. Why do you feel it is? > Nobody has the moral high ground. There is no such thing. Bold claim. There is no such thing as moral high ground?
- wrycoder 3y ago
  Actually, I appreciate the definite opinions and colorful language. And, the POV expressed is realistic, IMO.
- robomartin 3y ago
  > Why are you so aggressive in your tone? You are reading something into my comments that isn't there. Don't take it personally, none of it is aimed at the person I was replying to anyway. > source needed though Ah, the HN response when... Evident to anyone who actually knows anything about how businesses work. Still, here, go to page 5: https://www.codat.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Codat_Guide-to-Accounting-Software-Market_July-2020.pdf https://www.codat.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Codat_Guide-... This is for 2020. Numbers for 2023 are likely larger. Quickbooks offerings have a 75% dominance of the market. And, for a good reason. This is the standard I was talking about. Again, nobody gives a shit about FOSS, only us nerds. In other words, those of us who likely live two or more standard deviations from the mean. Go ask your local dentist if she gives a shit about FOSS. Everywhere else under the curve, people want to focus on their core business and get on with the job of making money, supporting their families, innovating and growing their business. Their accountant/CPA says "Use Quickbooks. It will make the process simpler". That's what they do. The cost is a rounding error for any non-trivial business. FOSS does not matter. What matters is solving a non-revenue-generating problem in a way that does not consume clock cycles and moving on to more important things. > Which mob? Reality distortion? Nobody was accusing you of hating FOSS, why do you feel you need to defend yourself? Saying anything even remotely in favor of paid closed-source software or hardware is considered "unholy" by a certain segment of the tech community. Online, they can be quite vocal and even aggressive. They generally lack what I call "real world sense of proportion and common sense" and behave as FOSS absolutists. At the extremes, it is a cult or a mob or a group of seriously misguided individuals who lack context. I love FOSS and support it as much as possible. I hope to be able to have the time to contribute to some of it (KiCAD, I have you at the top of the list!) when I retire. However, very frequently in business you have to make decisions based on what gets the job done so you can focus on what you were there to do in the first place. I have tons of examples of this. We have been licensing Solidworks almost since it came out. This amounts to tens of thousands of dollars per seat. Our SW Flow and Thermal simulation license probably cost tens of thousands of dollars per seat as well. And the same is the case for our SW CAM tools. I'd have to do the math, yet I would not be surprised to learn that the full suite of SW tools and SW cost us in the order of $75K to $100K to license and maintain over the years. And that was, and continues to be, the right decision. It's the right tool for the job. We get to focus on our core business of developing technology. We have immediate support and points of contact whenever we need something, anything. The software is good and always getting better. And it is a standard (much like Quickbooks is a standard). We actually pay for a Fusion360 license, yet, we've had difficulties using it in some cases because some of the work we do falls under ITAR regulations and the whole cloud thing can be a serious non-starter for that world. In other words, while it is cheaper, it's a non-starter because it would introduce more problems than we would ever care to deal with. Another example is paying for the Jetbrains tool suite. Excellent software. It works. We get to focus on other things that matter. Yeah, we also use VSCode where it makes sense. We pay for lots of other tools when it makes sense. Photoshop and the Adobe suite is another example of something that is still a standard. In business, any second spent focusing on anything other than your core revenue-generating mission is a second wasted. While FOSS can be great when it works well, anyone with any experience has stories of problems that can burn time at a massive rate. There's a place for everything. > There is no such thing as moral high ground? Some feel that being a FOSS absolutist is a moral high ground. There is no such thing as a moral high ground purely based on whether software is free and/or open source or paid and/or closed source. To state it in the simplest possible terms: You pick-up and use a screwdriver because it gets the job done. It matters not if that screwdriver was given to you for free along with full design files on how to make your own or you bought it at the store. What matters is that it let you tighten the screw and you move on.