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I am baffled as to why they had to launch an entirely new app rather than just rename the existing one. Could Apple have made them change the bundle ID? It's li

by wrs 3y ago

I am baffled as to why they had to launch an entirely new app rather than just rename the existing one. Could Apple have made them change the bundle ID? It's like they're putting in deliberate obstacles for existing subscribers.

paddw 3y ago
organizational politics
cle 3y ago
They merged with Discovery.
chaxor 3y ago
Maybe they rewrite it in Rust :)
nebula8804 3y ago
Elon Musk originally said this in an interview somewhere but it stuck with me: "The organizational inefficiencies and structure will manifest themselves in the end product." We can probably gleam many insights about the people who made the app (how it works, how big the bundle is, how fast/slow etc.). I haven't used the app so I can't make any judgements about the organization behind it.
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago
  Nice rephrasing of Conway’s law :)
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Its from memory of some old interview. Think he was talking about some aspect of a design flaw in his cars.
    - harrisi 3y ago
      I think the point loloquwowndueo was making is that Elon Musk didn't come up with that idea, Melvin Conway did. It's also an idea older than Conway, presumably, although I don't know for sure.
      - nebula8804 3y ago
        I guess my wording was poor. I didn't really intend to say that Elon Musk came up with it only that I personally first heard of this concept from him saying it.
- PascLeRasc 3y ago
  I would have picked a different mission statement
mdasen 3y ago
Some it was probably "this gives us an excuse to rewrite the system, but better this time!" Rebranding often gives a certain amount of cover to do things you want to do even if you don't have to do it. Often new management wants to put their stamp on things. I've been in situations where we've had to do major redesigns because a new leader wanted to leave their mark. I've been in situations where each new leader wanted a new logo to mark that they made a difference - 3 logos in a decade. Companies often squander resources in this kind of way. That's not to say that some redesigns and changes aren't warranted, but these things happen often. Why has Google launched a dozen chat apps? Why do some apps get a huge push followed by being abandoned followed by a huge rebranding/recoding push followed by being abandoned again? Many people on here have speculated it's because people get promoted for launching big new things and not for things that seem "easy" like maintenance. You're rightly baffled from a logical standpoint. When you start thinking about the humans involved in the situation, their egos, their priorities for themselves which might not align with the company's, etc., then it potentially starts to make more sense.
- PascLeRasc 3y ago
  More like it was previously determined by someone who doesn't work there anymore that there would be a new app, and and no one is allowed to Deviate from the System Architecture Specification Trace Matrix.
- bjtitus 3y ago
  Rewriting doesn't require a new listing on really any of these platforms. They could have rewritten every single thing and still made it an update. I'm guessing there was some contractual thing (perhaps cable related) around the HBO name or else someone made a very poor choice.
  - bushbaba 3y ago
    Yep. Probably liscensing and future merger related. “The current plan is to unify the HBO Max service and the Discovery+ service under a single brand” https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/hbo-max-discovery-plus-merger-explained/ https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/hbo-max-discovery-plus-m...
ElderKorihor 3y ago
My oldish LG TV had an HBO Max app but it wasn't available in my area due to exclusivity agreements. In order to grab it, I had to change the region of my TV before going to the app store. This workaround is not required for the new app, I can just straight-up grab it. I wonder if rebranding with a new app allowed HBO to worm out of agreements like this?
superfrank 3y ago
Didn't they already do that? They used to have HBO Go and HBO Now and I believe one of those became HBO Max and they sunset the other one.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  I still have the HBO Max app installed on my phone. It only displays a page that says "HBO Max is now Max" some other text and then a download button that redirects you to the app store page for the new app.
  - m0dest 3y ago
    Only in the US. In all other markets, the HBO Max app still functions, and the Max app will only show a "not available" message.
renewiltord 3y ago
Oh, we don't recertify things if they are branded MAX out of an abundance of caution.
howinteresting 3y ago
Likely because Max isn't rolled out in all countries yet.
- input_sh 3y ago
  Or more specifically not available in any other country: https://help.max.com/us/Answer/Detail/000002518 https://help.max.com/us/Answer/Detail/000002518 Hell, HBO Max became available in my country just last year, replacing HBO Go. And I know there used to be HBO Now in some places, so I guess we skipped that one. And no HBO is available in some of the places where you really expect it to be, like German speaking countries. It's the most bafflingly stupid streaming service I ever had the displeasure of using.
Mindwipe 3y ago
It was probably because they're not doing the merger in all their markets (at least any time soon), and they need to maintain the old platform and functionality outside the US as a result. Subsequently having two separate codebase was probably considered preferable to development on one slowing to a crawl while it chased after two diverging requirements lists.
- HeavyStorm 3y ago
  Hmm, this might be the case. I'm in South America and still using HBO max.
hummer_embark 3y ago
[dead]
HeavyStorm 3y ago
Because the old app sucked real bad. I can see there's no improvement.
- jghn 3y ago
  The new one is notably worse
HeavyStorm 3y ago
The reason is probably way simpler than people think: the current HBO Max app is rated at 2.8 stars in half a million reviews in the android app store. I imagine a similar rating on apple's store. A new app gives you a blank slate, which is easier than reverting old ratings.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Doesn’t Apple already reset ratings between app updates? I remember being nudged for repeated reviews by many apps, some explicitly listing that reason, before that was prohibited by Apple.
  - generalpf 3y ago
    No, they don't, you can manually ask for a one-time reset of your ratings before you do a major update. They could have done it here.
lxgr 3y ago
I’ve been wondering about that too. Then again, some years ago, Spotify forced all users on (I believe) Android to download an entirely new app that was visually completely identical. Login state and downloaded tracks were lost. I still wonder what happened there. Surely that‘s among the worst things you can do from an SEO and customer retention perspectives?
- voakbasda 3y ago
  I would not be surprised if in both cases the developer posting the app to the store was using their own account. The company of course did not realize this and proceeded to do something (probably stupid) to make that developer quit and give them the finger on the way out the door. When their managers realized their mistake(s), a new app seems like the inevitable outcome.
mwexler 3y ago
The new leadership at HBO came from Discover. They have a stable of brand names they could have used (Max came from the Cinemax collection, known in the US for it's "After Dark" soft porn movies, aka "Skinemax"). From news reports and interviews with the leaders involved, it appears that new guard wanted to have something new they could own and take credit for, and HBO was owned by the previous regime. None of Discovery's marques were strong enough, and the $$ to get Discover as a brand into the right place was high. So, least of all evils, given their problem: scrub HBO off the name, make it one of many brands in the app, and hope "Max" on its own, with some marketing, can expand to fill the gap. If it works, Discover team takes credit. If not, Discover team blames holdovers from HBO days and says that this was just an intermediate step on the way to a brand new experience that will launch "real soon now". Lots of problems with this approach, but business isn't always rational.
vitorgrs 3y ago
Well, HBO Max app still need to exists because foreigner accounts can't use Max yet. So it would be a PITA for those who travel to the U.S and want to watch stuff.
- dagw 3y ago
  On the other hand HBO is now broken for people from the US who travel, since the MAX app doesn't work outside the US.

by wrs 3y ago

paddw 3y ago

organizational politics

cle 3y ago

They merged with Discovery.

chaxor 3y ago

Maybe they rewrite it in Rust :)

nebula8804 3y ago

Elon Musk originally said this in an interview somewhere but it stuck with me: "The organizational inefficiencies and structure will manifest themselves in the end product." We can probably gleam many insights about the people who made the app (how it works, how big the bundle is, how fast/slow etc.). I haven't used the app so I can't make any judgements about the organization behind it.

loloquwowndueo 3y ago
Nice rephrasing of Conway’s law :)
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Its from memory of some old interview. Think he was talking about some aspect of a design flaw in his cars.
  - harrisi 3y ago
    I think the point loloquwowndueo was making is that Elon Musk didn't come up with that idea, Melvin Conway did. It's also an idea older than Conway, presumably, although I don't know for sure.
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      I guess my wording was poor. I didn't really intend to say that Elon Musk came up with it only that I personally first heard of this concept from him saying it.
PascLeRasc 3y ago
I would have picked a different mission statement

mdasen 3y ago

Some it was probably "this gives us an excuse to rewrite the system, but better this time!" Rebranding often gives a certain amount of cover to do things you want to do even if you don't have to do it. Often new management wants to put their stamp on things. I've been in situations where we've had to do major redesigns because a new leader wanted to leave their mark. I've been in situations where each new leader wanted a new logo to mark that they made a difference - 3 logos in a decade. Companies often squander resources in this kind of way. That's not to say that some redesigns and changes aren't warranted, but these things happen often. Why has Google launched a dozen chat apps? Why do some apps get a huge push followed by being abandoned followed by a huge rebranding/recoding push followed by being abandoned again? Many people on here have speculated it's because people get promoted for launching big new things and not for things that seem "easy" like maintenance. You're rightly baffled from a logical standpoint. When you start thinking about the humans involved in the situation, their egos, their priorities for themselves which might not align with the company's, etc., then it potentially starts to make more sense.

PascLeRasc 3y ago
More like it was previously determined by someone who doesn't work there anymore that there would be a new app, and and no one is allowed to Deviate from the System Architecture Specification Trace Matrix.
bjtitus 3y ago
Rewriting doesn't require a new listing on really any of these platforms. They could have rewritten every single thing and still made it an update. I'm guessing there was some contractual thing (perhaps cable related) around the HBO name or else someone made a very poor choice.
- bushbaba 3y ago
  Yep. Probably liscensing and future merger related. “The current plan is to unify the HBO Max service and the Discovery+ service under a single brand” https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/hbo-max-discovery-plus-merger-explained/ https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/hbo-max-discovery-plus-m...

ElderKorihor 3y ago

My oldish LG TV had an HBO Max app but it wasn't available in my area due to exclusivity agreements. In order to grab it, I had to change the region of my TV before going to the app store. This workaround is not required for the new app, I can just straight-up grab it. I wonder if rebranding with a new app allowed HBO to worm out of agreements like this?

superfrank 3y ago

Didn't they already do that? They used to have HBO Go and HBO Now and I believe one of those became HBO Max and they sunset the other one.

squeaky-clean 3y ago
I still have the HBO Max app installed on my phone. It only displays a page that says "HBO Max is now Max" some other text and then a download button that redirects you to the app store page for the new app.
- m0dest 3y ago
  Only in the US. In all other markets, the HBO Max app still functions, and the Max app will only show a "not available" message.

renewiltord 3y ago

Oh, we don't recertify things if they are branded MAX out of an abundance of caution.

howinteresting 3y ago

Likely because Max isn't rolled out in all countries yet.

input_sh 3y ago
Or more specifically not available in any other country: https://help.max.com/us/Answer/Detail/000002518 https://help.max.com/us/Answer/Detail/000002518 Hell, HBO Max became available in my country just last year, replacing HBO Go. And I know there used to be HBO Now in some places, so I guess we skipped that one. And no HBO is available in some of the places where you really expect it to be, like German speaking countries. It's the most bafflingly stupid streaming service I ever had the displeasure of using.

Mindwipe 3y ago

It was probably because they're not doing the merger in all their markets (at least any time soon), and they need to maintain the old platform and functionality outside the US as a result. Subsequently having two separate codebase was probably considered preferable to development on one slowing to a crawl while it chased after two diverging requirements lists.

HeavyStorm 3y ago
Hmm, this might be the case. I'm in South America and still using HBO max.

hummer_embark 3y ago

[dead]

HeavyStorm 3y ago

Because the old app sucked real bad. I can see there's no improvement.

jghn 3y ago
The new one is notably worse

HeavyStorm 3y ago

The reason is probably way simpler than people think: the current HBO Max app is rated at 2.8 stars in half a million reviews in the android app store. I imagine a similar rating on apple's store. A new app gives you a blank slate, which is easier than reverting old ratings.

lxgr 3y ago
Doesn’t Apple already reset ratings between app updates? I remember being nudged for repeated reviews by many apps, some explicitly listing that reason, before that was prohibited by Apple.
- generalpf 3y ago
  No, they don't, you can manually ask for a one-time reset of your ratings before you do a major update. They could have done it here.

lxgr 3y ago

I’ve been wondering about that too. Then again, some years ago, Spotify forced all users on (I believe) Android to download an entirely new app that was visually completely identical. Login state and downloaded tracks were lost. I still wonder what happened there. Surely that‘s among the worst things you can do from an SEO and customer retention perspectives?

voakbasda 3y ago
I would not be surprised if in both cases the developer posting the app to the store was using their own account. The company of course did not realize this and proceeded to do something (probably stupid) to make that developer quit and give them the finger on the way out the door. When their managers realized their mistake(s), a new app seems like the inevitable outcome.

mwexler 3y ago

The new leadership at HBO came from Discover. They have a stable of brand names they could have used (Max came from the Cinemax collection, known in the US for it's "After Dark" soft porn movies, aka "Skinemax"). From news reports and interviews with the leaders involved, it appears that new guard wanted to have something new they could own and take credit for, and HBO was owned by the previous regime. None of Discovery's marques were strong enough, and the $$ to get Discover as a brand into the right place was high. So, least of all evils, given their problem: scrub HBO off the name, make it one of many brands in the app, and hope "Max" on its own, with some marketing, can expand to fill the gap. If it works, Discover team takes credit. If not, Discover team blames holdovers from HBO days and says that this was just an intermediate step on the way to a brand new experience that will launch "real soon now". Lots of problems with this approach, but business isn't always rational.

vitorgrs 3y ago

Well, HBO Max app still need to exists because foreigner accounts can't use Max yet. So it would be a PITA for those who travel to the U.S and want to watch stuff.

dagw 3y ago
On the other hand HBO is now broken for people from the US who travel, since the MAX app doesn't work outside the US.