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You might as well ban cars entirely at that point. The biggest criticism of EVs is that they are still cars. They are still the most resource and footprint inte

by _hypx 3y ago

You might as well ban cars entirely at that point. The biggest criticism of EVs is that they are still cars. They are still the most resource and footprint intensive form of transportation out there.

ehnto 3y ago
We really should ban cars from certain parts of city centres, and cities have been doing so. Changes per city of course, but we don't need to accomodate cars up to the businesses doorstep. If your business actually required car access, you probably wouldn't have survived in a city centre anyway. IKEA requires car access, and you can tell by how much parking they need. A dress shop doesn't need car access, one (taken) car spot versus the hundreds of people on foot. Give me a break. I am salty because of all the beneficial works that get turned down by the encumbent store owners who can't let go of their measly parking affordance for the sake of hundreds of people actually using the streets.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wilg 3y ago
Not accurate, short-haul flights are. Means of Transport CO2 equivalent emissions per passenger km Short Flight 255g Medium Car (Gasoline) 192g Medium Car (Diesel) 171g Medium Flight 156g Long Flight 150g Bus 105g Medium Motorcycle 103g Gasoline Car (Two Passenger) 96g Medium Electric Vehicle 53g National Rail 41g Ferry 19g Eurostar (International Rail) 6g https://www.visualcapitalist.com/comparing-the-carbon-footprint-of-transportation-options/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/comparing-the-carbon-footpr... Also, electric cars with multiple people manage to beat rail: https://www.pawprint.eco/eco-blog/green-myth-busting-train-vs-driving https://www.pawprint.eco/eco-blog/green-myth-busting-train-v... Side note: Hacker News should support tables, and shouldn't strip emoji.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Your figures don't add up. Divide the electric car by 4 or 5 and it's still more than the electric Eurostar train, and that's a high speed train too.
  - wilg 3y ago
    Yeah but it still beats the other trains, which is very surprising. Also my second link has more info. I’d prefer better sources on all of this though.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      The source is probably an older edition of [1]. The source for that is partly [2]. That splits the figures into 35.2g / passenger-km for electric, and 704.4g for diesel. The per-vehicle-km figures have a 1:3 ratio, but the per passenger figures nearer 1:20, so I think the huge disparity is due to electric trains being on much more heavily used lines. With Eurostar being 6g, they must have very high usage, or maybe the older electric trains really are much less efficient than the newest ones. [1] https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1843/rail-emissions-2019-20.pdf https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1843/rail-emissions-2019... [2] https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/infrastructure-and-emissions/rail-emissions/table-6100-estimates-of-normalised-passenger-carbon-dioxide-equivalent-co2e-emissions/ https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/infrastructure-and-...

by _hypx 3y ago

You might as well ban cars entirely at that point. The biggest criticism of EVs is that they are still cars. They are still the most resource and footprint intensive form of transportation out there.

ehnto 3y ago

We really should ban cars from certain parts of city centres, and cities have been doing so. Changes per city of course, but we don't need to accomodate cars up to the businesses doorstep. If your business actually required car access, you probably wouldn't have survived in a city centre anyway. IKEA requires car access, and you can tell by how much parking they need. A dress shop doesn't need car access, one (taken) car spot versus the hundreds of people on foot. Give me a break. I am salty because of all the beneficial works that get turned down by the encumbent store owners who can't let go of their measly parking affordance for the sake of hundreds of people actually using the streets.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wilg 3y ago

Not accurate, short-haul flights are. Means of Transport CO2 equivalent emissions per passenger km Short Flight 255g Medium Car (Gasoline) 192g Medium Car (Diesel) 171g Medium Flight 156g Long Flight 150g Bus 105g Medium Motorcycle 103g Gasoline Car (Two Passenger) 96g Medium Electric Vehicle 53g National Rail 41g Ferry 19g Eurostar (International Rail) 6g https://www.visualcapitalist.com/comparing-the-carbon-footprint-of-transportation-options/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/comparing-the-carbon-footpr... Also, electric cars with multiple people manage to beat rail: https://www.pawprint.eco/eco-blog/green-myth-busting-train-vs-driving https://www.pawprint.eco/eco-blog/green-myth-busting-train-v... Side note: Hacker News should support tables, and shouldn't strip emoji.

Symbiote 3y ago
Your figures don't add up. Divide the electric car by 4 or 5 and it's still more than the electric Eurostar train, and that's a high speed train too.
- wilg 3y ago
  Yeah but it still beats the other trains, which is very surprising. Also my second link has more info. I’d prefer better sources on all of this though.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    The source is probably an older edition of [1]. The source for that is partly [2]. That splits the figures into 35.2g / passenger-km for electric, and 704.4g for diesel. The per-vehicle-km figures have a 1:3 ratio, but the per passenger figures nearer 1:20, so I think the huge disparity is due to electric trains being on much more heavily used lines. With Eurostar being 6g, they must have very high usage, or maybe the older electric trains really are much less efficient than the newest ones. [1] https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1843/rail-emissions-2019-20.pdf https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1843/rail-emissions-2019... [2] https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/infrastructure-and-emissions/rail-emissions/table-6100-estimates-of-normalised-passenger-carbon-dioxide-equivalent-co2e-emissions/ https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/infrastructure-and-...