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Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. Where would all these underground parking l
by kleiba 3y ago
Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. Where would all these underground parking lots come from?
Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic?
- oblio 3y agoStreets? No, that's where people live, work. Roads? Sure! Stroads, too (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad)
- lmm 3y ago> Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. Where would all these underground parking lots come from? If car parking is a worthwhile use of space, the market will provide it (and whether below or above ground is beside the point). If it's not, it won't. > Why not go a step further and demand that all streets should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic? It's a good idea, but we probably have to get there incrementally.
- kaveh_h 3y agoIn < 10 years or so we’ll have fully self driving cars. After some time there will smaller versions that can run on smaller roads even. By that time robo taxis won’t have to park in the central parts of cities but can simply park in cheaper parking spots further out or automatic garages.
- lmm 3y agoI'll believe it when I see it. But if you're right, all the more reason to eliminate street parking and reclaim that space for more human uses.
- eliaspro 3y agoIf parking would be left to "the market", no one would do it within city limits. Parking spaces are heavily subsidized. In Germany, until recently the costs for a residential parking spot were capped at strong 35€/year or so. The actual "market value" of the equivalent space in cities is often around 4000-6000€/year. Getting cars out of cities and using the space more efficiently for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport is not only a way to drastically improve safety and quality of life in cities, but also a smart economical choice (and no, building tunnels like Musk dreams of it, isn't the solution to this problem).
- dspig 3y agoEspecially in Cologne where the underground is already full of modern and ancient stuff!
- wariwariwari 3y ago[flagged]
- llamaimperative 3y ago> Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic? Don’t threaten me with a good time
- nickff 3y agoTunnels are much more dangerous to transit and vulnerable to being blocked than open-air streets.
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago> Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be put underground Like a subway. Throw in some bicycles or e-scooters for the last ~200 meters.
- jupp0r 3y agoGood luck hauling 100lbs of groceries through the subway.
- ehnto 3y ago100 pounds! We'll need at least 2400 pounds of automobile to handle such an unweildy load. I jest but people handle shopping in a myriad of ways, if you live somewhere with good transit it's really not an issue. The Big Shop is a bit of a symptom of suburbia's unavailability problem anyway, since it's such a pain in the butt to get groceries I would optimize it all into one big shop with the car. It's really similar to living remotely, I used to live in rural Aus and the closest shops where a town over, so you drove half an hour or so to get your groceries. Living in the city, you do more shops but less per shop, and it is totaly managable on foot with good transit or by bike with good panniers/bags.
- jupp0r 3y agoIt's super easy to get groceries where I live but I still wouldn't want to go shopping multiple times per week. I'd rather spend time on other things.
- theshrike79 3y agoExactly, this is why I order my groceries delivered to my door. Costs 0€ if you're not a stickler about the delivery window and order for at least 50€ at a time.
- numpad0 3y ago“But we’re going to need a car” is a reason some people don’t sign up for a CostCo membership.
- mc32 3y agoMeadows and pastures are for pedestrians only! No mechanized devices of any kind. Only exception would be crutches and unpowered wheelchairs for those who are disabled!
- zx8080 3y ago> demand that all roads should be put underground That's called subway.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- romwell 3y ago>Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic? I'll do you one better! Since the cars are going to be electric, why not put charging inside the road, so that the car would charge while rolling? In fact, we can forgo the battery entirely, making the cars lighter, by powering them through the road! While we're at that, we could allow cars going to the same destination to link to each other to optimize traffic. Oh, and we could also reduce rolling friction by putting these vehicles on rails. There you go, we could do much better with underground roads on which electric vehicles roll on rails in metropolitan areas. We could call these system metros. Ah, if only such utopian dreams could be implemented. I guess we'll never see it in our lifetimes.
- wilg 3y agoI am begging people to realize that cars and trains have different use cases and trade-offs.
- ycombinete 3y agoEdinburgh literally has underground cycle lanes [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/jun/17/interactive-map-edinburgh-cycle-paths https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/jun/1...
- prennert 3y agoJust for those who also thought all lines on this map are underground: most of them are not. It's just pathways with segregated traffic. I could not find out how many underground sections there are, but I assume it's just the linking sections (white with black outline)
- ycombinete 3y agoYes, you are right I think. I must have misinterpreted something that a friend who lives there said to me. Thanks for the correction.
- newaccount74 3y ago> It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. ... and 95% of that time there were no cars parked in the street > pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadows ... Pedestrians like walking on paved streets as well. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that cars should be banned. Cars are super useful! Cars are useful when you need to pick someone up who is ill, if you need to transport heavy stuff, when the city workers need to collect trash, etc. In all these scenarios it would be nice if the streets weren't crowded with parked cars. So my suggestion is to remove street parking, turn the streets into shared zones where you can stop your car anywhere for 15 minutes (enough time for picking people up and dropping them off, or for delivering stuff, or for transporting heavy stuff), and where pedestrians, bikes, and cars can travel at reasonable speeds to get wherever they need. It would actually be nicer for most drivers -- if you park long term, you drive into a garage, if it's just a quick stop, you stop right in front of the house that you need to get to.