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You know this concept is in indian, korean and japanese cultures as well. A friend insists it is an asian culutural thing but I hard disagree, but I do understa

by _8j50 3y ago

You know this concept is in indian, korean and japanese cultures as well. A friend insists it is an asian culutural thing but I hard disagree, but I do understand I need to learn more. Outside of Europe, just about every society in the "old" world has this concept. You basically live for your parents and then also for your children. Parents use the pride and disappointment as ways to control the future of their child and children strive to become the perfect child. I'll give you an example: what immigrant ethnicities dominate medicine in the US? Indian, Nigerian, east asian. And the people I have spoken to largley attribute their parent's desire as the main/initial motivator for choosing such a difficult field. I'll say this, ancestor worship is only in some societies that are mostly asian (to my knowledge), that includes concepts like the way you live honors or displeases your ancestors who can bless or curse you in real time. It isn't jusr filial piety but piety towards elders. When I started watching east asian dramas many years ago, I kept thinking how their dramas reminded me of so many other cultures outside of asia. My theory is that even europe used to be this way pre-renaisance. Any society that had arranged marriages meant parents did the arranging to the most part. It is difficult for me to imagine allowing your parent to decide who you will be stuck with for the rest of your life without filial piety. Of course, I don't mean to suggest specific countries' concept of filial piety is unique and shouldn't be studied on it's own like this. Just pointing out that there are more non-western countries outside of asia that still follow this concept than there aren't.

contingencies 3y ago
Look at a map of China. See the bit that sticks out to the east, toward Japan and Korea? That's the Shandong peninsula. At the western (inland) end of that is Qufu, where Confucius was born. Japan and Korea were influenced by Confucianism, as was Vietnam. This is the source of the English phrase "filial piety" with regard to East Asian cultures. India is a totally different beast. Source: Studied ancient Chinese history with an interest in broader Asian history and ancient philosophy. Lived in the region 20+ years. Have visited all of those countries and places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism
- dheera 3y ago
  "The western term filial piety was originally derived from studies of Western societies, based on Mediterranean cultures." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety Vast portions of the world have some concept of filial piety, it is a local optimum for society in the absence of technology and modern conveniences, that so many cultures naturally converged on it. Go ask some Hispanics, South Asians, Southeast Asians, they all have some version of it that is really not far from the Confucian version. The big value shift happening now is that in a modern technological society, having children is optional, a personal choice, so parents are now expected to provide for the child if they make the choice to bring one into existence, without expecting anything in return. In the past, having a child was a necessity for the sustainability of the country (and even species, to a great extent) at large, so it was done by all, even parents who could not provide, so filial piety was the only way it could be sustained.
  - worrycue 3y ago
    > In the past, having a child was a necessity for the sustainability of the country I would argue it still is now unless you patch things with immigration (but that's just having another country do the work for you) or AGI becomes a thing.
  - contingencies 3y ago
    Sigh. Re-read what I wrote. You appear to be arguing with a straw man.
    - witchesindublin 3y ago
      As someone who actually lives in Japan for over a decade, you are wrong about the idea that the filal piety in East Asia comes from China. It is common but incorrect of many Chinese to overstate their impact on East Asia, but in reality the Chinese have had little impact on Japan and most of South East Asia (except for Vietnam) until recent immigration of Chinese in the last century.

by _8j50 3y ago

contingencies 3y ago

Look at a map of China. See the bit that sticks out to the east, toward Japan and Korea? That's the Shandong peninsula. At the western (inland) end of that is Qufu, where Confucius was born. Japan and Korea were influenced by Confucianism, as was Vietnam. This is the source of the English phrase "filial piety" with regard to East Asian cultures. India is a totally different beast. Source: Studied ancient Chinese history with an interest in broader Asian history and ancient philosophy. Lived in the region 20+ years. Have visited all of those countries and places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

dheera 3y ago
"The western term filial piety was originally derived from studies of Western societies, based on Mediterranean cultures." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety Vast portions of the world have some concept of filial piety, it is a local optimum for society in the absence of technology and modern conveniences, that so many cultures naturally converged on it. Go ask some Hispanics, South Asians, Southeast Asians, they all have some version of it that is really not far from the Confucian version. The big value shift happening now is that in a modern technological society, having children is optional, a personal choice, so parents are now expected to provide for the child if they make the choice to bring one into existence, without expecting anything in return. In the past, having a child was a necessity for the sustainability of the country (and even species, to a great extent) at large, so it was done by all, even parents who could not provide, so filial piety was the only way it could be sustained.
- worrycue 3y ago
  > In the past, having a child was a necessity for the sustainability of the country I would argue it still is now unless you patch things with immigration (but that's just having another country do the work for you) or AGI becomes a thing.
- contingencies 3y ago
  Sigh. Re-read what I wrote. You appear to be arguing with a straw man.
  - witchesindublin 3y ago
    As someone who actually lives in Japan for over a decade, you are wrong about the idea that the filal piety in East Asia comes from China. It is common but incorrect of many Chinese to overstate their impact on East Asia, but in reality the Chinese have had little impact on Japan and most of South East Asia (except for Vietnam) until recent immigration of Chinese in the last century.