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> I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd It's not this crowd you should be defending against - it's the profiteers. Extraction of profits has been elev

> I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd It's not this crowd you should be defending against - it's the profiteers. Extraction of profits has been elevated above everything else and I feel the social contract between industry and individuals has been violated. Salaries are depressed and everything is so expensive, people need to have worked-out a decent-paying career before they consider getting married and/or kids, so people are getting married later in life, or not getting married at all because the dating pool gets shallower with age. The societal effects of over-extracting profits are ging to be catastrophic, but short-termism is now built-in.

anon291 3y ago
Marriage and family and community are historically preventative of the types of exploitative individuals and groups you talk about. In your model the causation is that profiteers caused the breakdown of marriage but we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation. It's also plausible that the decline of marriage caused the preponderance of profiteers. Indeed given the modern day 'profit above all else mentality' that seems to pervade many businesses thoughts these days, and the length of history of marriage, I'd say the latter is more likely. As for dual income. I'm sorry I simply don't believe it. In my conservative Catholic circle in a high cost of living area, I'm seeing many families with almost a dozen kids where only dad is working (my wife and I included). Dad is not even a software engineer making high six figures. In many families the father's are totally normal incomes and we have a fair share of people making below average. Two incomes is a choice. There is no difference in average income between the two groups yet one has different values. One difference is the mother's are very productive amongst themselves getting things done economically.
- nunobrito 3y ago
  That goes against what most people advocate as reason for women to work. I live between Germany and Portugal, where in both countries is similar to what you describe. It is perfectly possible to raise a large family with only the father having a salary. Today most couples have the mindset of buying a house for hundreds of thousand euros, pay tens of thousands for a car and also afford vacation to Thailand or whatever frivolous location. Choosing a more modest location to live, buying second-hand cars without debt, having the wife cooking and taking care of the children is already a huge difference. What is not measured if the happiness of the woman in watching her children grow, that is truly fantastic. Most media favor an "empowerment" rather than presenting as option a traditional lifestyle. Took me decades to understand this and guide my own family towards a saner lifestyle away from frivolous consuming habits.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > In many families the father's are totally normal incomes and we have a fair share of people making below average. I'm guessing those families are not living the conspicuous-consumption that has been the "new-normal" for decades now. I'll note that it's easier to have a single-income household when you're inheriting a house from grandma, or if dad will help with the deposit for buying a property. However, if both partners are from low-/no-wealth families, they will find themselves forced to get their career on track and/or live a more modest lifestyle than their peers.
  - anon291 3y ago
    Well yes.. we live an alternative lifestyle I suppose. As for wealth.. I can't speak to that but we look out for each other and there are several families I know who do not have that kind of support. > live a more modest lifestyle than their peers. you mean are less greedy than peers.
    - sangnoir 3y ago
      > you mean are less greedy than peers. I was avoiding speculating on motivations and was aiming for objectivity.

anon291 3y ago

Marriage and family and community are historically preventative of the types of exploitative individuals and groups you talk about. In your model the causation is that profiteers caused the breakdown of marriage but we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation. It's also plausible that the decline of marriage caused the preponderance of profiteers. Indeed given the modern day 'profit above all else mentality' that seems to pervade many businesses thoughts these days, and the length of history of marriage, I'd say the latter is more likely. As for dual income. I'm sorry I simply don't believe it. In my conservative Catholic circle in a high cost of living area, I'm seeing many families with almost a dozen kids where only dad is working (my wife and I included). Dad is not even a software engineer making high six figures. In many families the father's are totally normal incomes and we have a fair share of people making below average. Two incomes is a choice. There is no difference in average income between the two groups yet one has different values. One difference is the mother's are very productive amongst themselves getting things done economically.

nunobrito 3y ago
That goes against what most people advocate as reason for women to work. I live between Germany and Portugal, where in both countries is similar to what you describe. It is perfectly possible to raise a large family with only the father having a salary. Today most couples have the mindset of buying a house for hundreds of thousand euros, pay tens of thousands for a car and also afford vacation to Thailand or whatever frivolous location. Choosing a more modest location to live, buying second-hand cars without debt, having the wife cooking and taking care of the children is already a huge difference. What is not measured if the happiness of the woman in watching her children grow, that is truly fantastic. Most media favor an "empowerment" rather than presenting as option a traditional lifestyle. Took me decades to understand this and guide my own family towards a saner lifestyle away from frivolous consuming habits.
sangnoir 3y ago
> In many families the father's are totally normal incomes and we have a fair share of people making below average. I'm guessing those families are not living the conspicuous-consumption that has been the "new-normal" for decades now. I'll note that it's easier to have a single-income household when you're inheriting a house from grandma, or if dad will help with the deposit for buying a property. However, if both partners are from low-/no-wealth families, they will find themselves forced to get their career on track and/or live a more modest lifestyle than their peers.
- anon291 3y ago
  Well yes.. we live an alternative lifestyle I suppose. As for wealth.. I can't speak to that but we look out for each other and there are several families I know who do not have that kind of support. > live a more modest lifestyle than their peers. you mean are less greedy than peers.
  - sangnoir 3y ago
    > you mean are less greedy than peers. I was avoiding speculating on motivations and was aiming for objectivity.