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"Is there something dystopian about India or Soviet Union that is unlike the Global North?" Actually, I would place the soviet union in the global north (you c

"Is there something dystopian about India or Soviet Union that is unlike the Global North?" Actually, I would place the soviet union in the global north (you cannot go much further north, than russia is). And the difference is the extent, what they did to rewrite history. The famous removal of Trotzki out of revolution pictures, after he was not with the main party anymore. Stuff like this, did not happen in the west. Lots of other manipulation and misinformation, sure, but not blatantly rewriting history.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Geographic location isn’t the only aspect of “Global North/South”. Australia is considered part of the North grouping.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  Sure, same with west/east https://xkcd.com/503/ https://xkcd.com/503/ But it still makes no sense to me, to exclude russia from the global north.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    There’s a pretty clear split between Russia and the nations in the “Global North”. Almost all of them have Russia under severe sanctions right now.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      There also was never a clear political union between geographical west and east. I think it just makes no sense using these terminology.
      - skinnymuch 3y ago
        East and west is effectively deprecated with the current world order. We use Global North/South sometimes now. The reason we have this terminology is because of the colonization, imperialism, elitism, and racism set forth by the Global North. The point isn’t to find the perfect terminology. It’s bigger with a ton of history and material conditions attached to it.
juujian 3y ago
Yup, it's not unique to the Soviet union, the Soviet union is just a particularly salient example. I wouldn't have anything like Trotsky being edited out at hand for the us.
- skinnymuch 3y ago
  What is the closest example to Trotsky for the US that you have at hand? Otherwise I don’t understand the differences between Fred Hampton, Allende, Lumumba, Bhutto vs Trotsky. What about stolen land. Along with the death, destruction that ensues. Would stolen land that is “edited out” in the US or caused because of the US come close?
skinnymuch 3y ago
That’s not why the term Global North exists. A historical analysis of modern history shows why Slavs are not included in the Global North. Some one said the west cares about social rights and freedom vs Soviets or Indian people. Both societies were better with many forms of expression including gender and sexuality. This is a good example of history being rewritten for the Global North as the vanguards of social justice and liberal freedom. IE India has been better with trans people and Soviets with gay people. The Trotsky stuff is a big deal in the context of socialist states. Not the Global North. I fail to see the difference of the extent with some victims of COINTELPRO or the rewritten history of figures like Ho Chi, Ernesto Guevara, Cuba (Castros), Allende, Lumumba, Mao, Sankara, Kabil, Bhutto, Tito, and so on.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "The reason we have this terminology is because of the colonization, imperialism, elitism, and racism set forth by the Global North" "historical analysis of modern history shows why Slavs are not included in the Global North." Then please show me this analysis? How do you think the russian empire worked before the revolution? (or after) Or how it became an empire in the first place? "Ernesto Guevara" And how exactly was for example the history rewritten for the worse regarding this person? He is mostly regarded a hero with lots of merchandise to buy everywhere on the west. If his history was rewritten, then by socialists who dreamed of the clean, heroic revolution and closed their eyes to the bloddy, murderous work he did. (Not saying that those who hunted him down were any better) And Castro did not allow his underlings to leave the country at free will. Among other stuff. Or how did the indian empire(s) worked before the britains came? (would you enjoy being born in a low caste?) Or china. Or the Zulu. Or the aztecs, etc. etc. Or read a bit about Haile Selassi. It seems you are making a artificial line and claiming all or most of the evil came from the north. How is that helpful? Making the world more simpler by creating us vs them?

ceejayoz 3y ago

Geographic location isn’t the only aspect of “Global North/South”. Australia is considered part of the North grouping.

hutzlibu 3y ago
Sure, same with west/east https://xkcd.com/503/ https://xkcd.com/503/ But it still makes no sense to me, to exclude russia from the global north.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  There’s a pretty clear split between Russia and the nations in the “Global North”. Almost all of them have Russia under severe sanctions right now.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    There also was never a clear political union between geographical west and east. I think it just makes no sense using these terminology.
    - skinnymuch 3y ago
      East and west is effectively deprecated with the current world order. We use Global North/South sometimes now. The reason we have this terminology is because of the colonization, imperialism, elitism, and racism set forth by the Global North. The point isn’t to find the perfect terminology. It’s bigger with a ton of history and material conditions attached to it.

juujian 3y ago

Yup, it's not unique to the Soviet union, the Soviet union is just a particularly salient example. I wouldn't have anything like Trotsky being edited out at hand for the us.

skinnymuch 3y ago
What is the closest example to Trotsky for the US that you have at hand? Otherwise I don’t understand the differences between Fred Hampton, Allende, Lumumba, Bhutto vs Trotsky. What about stolen land. Along with the death, destruction that ensues. Would stolen land that is “edited out” in the US or caused because of the US come close?

skinnymuch 3y ago

That’s not why the term Global North exists. A historical analysis of modern history shows why Slavs are not included in the Global North. Some one said the west cares about social rights and freedom vs Soviets or Indian people. Both societies were better with many forms of expression including gender and sexuality. This is a good example of history being rewritten for the Global North as the vanguards of social justice and liberal freedom. IE India has been better with trans people and Soviets with gay people. The Trotsky stuff is a big deal in the context of socialist states. Not the Global North. I fail to see the difference of the extent with some victims of COINTELPRO or the rewritten history of figures like Ho Chi, Ernesto Guevara, Cuba (Castros), Allende, Lumumba, Mao, Sankara, Kabil, Bhutto, Tito, and so on.

hutzlibu 3y ago
"The reason we have this terminology is because of the colonization, imperialism, elitism, and racism set forth by the Global North" "historical analysis of modern history shows why Slavs are not included in the Global North." Then please show me this analysis? How do you think the russian empire worked before the revolution? (or after) Or how it became an empire in the first place? "Ernesto Guevara" And how exactly was for example the history rewritten for the worse regarding this person? He is mostly regarded a hero with lots of merchandise to buy everywhere on the west. If his history was rewritten, then by socialists who dreamed of the clean, heroic revolution and closed their eyes to the bloddy, murderous work he did. (Not saying that those who hunted him down were any better) And Castro did not allow his underlings to leave the country at free will. Among other stuff. Or how did the indian empire(s) worked before the britains came? (would you enjoy being born in a low caste?) Or china. Or the Zulu. Or the aztecs, etc. etc. Or read a bit about Haile Selassi. It seems you are making a artificial line and claiming all or most of the evil came from the north. How is that helpful? Making the world more simpler by creating us vs them?