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The inauguration of the new Parliament building where: - None of the major opposition parties attended - The President and other constitutional heads were not

The inauguration of the new Parliament building where: - None of the major opposition parties attended - The President and other constitutional heads were not invited - The protesting athletes were arrested - One religion was in the spotlight, as opposed to the Indian brand of secularism where ceremonies of all religions should have been conducted - On the day of Savarkar's (Hindu nationalist) birth anniversary - The PM treating it as a vanity project/personal PR photoshoot

ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
[flagged]
- praveen9920 3y ago
  Ever wondered why these "laws" were not repealed or even questioned by the ruling party in the last 9 years, even with an overwhelming majority in parliament?
  - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
    For the same reason that the Republicans continue believing, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they have a chance with black voters. No matter what the BJP tries, they will never get more than 10-15% of the Muslim vote. Hindus accept laws contrary to their interests. Muslims come out on the streets and arm twist their political beneficiaries into reversing judgements and acts that they perceive to be against their interests.[1] [1] Shah Bano case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_...)
    - praveen9920 3y ago
      There are ways of engaging with communities in democracy, rather than creating laws which one group ( majority ) think is right. which is not a great suite of the current ruling party, to be honest. Farmer laws, demonetization etc are some of examples. BTW, If a party cannot do what is required for the country, they probably are not right for ruling the country.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > It is only in "secular" India that organized religious conversions were allowed that led to Christians going from less that 1% of the population 100 years ago to 90% today in some states But all that happened before India was even fully independent so how is it relevant? Are you saying Christian should be forcibly converted back to Hinduism?
  - Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
    I'd partly disagree, there are reports of forced conversions to Islam in Kashmir, and women being raped and murdered on refusing to do so long after independence, as recent as 2021.
- Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
  Thank you for raising this! it definitely isn't talked about as much as it should, especially in western spheres of dicussion like here on hn
- rtbathula 3y ago
  1) First of all, state shouldn't involve in any type of religious activities let alone giving priority to one particular religion. It's written in the Constitution and it's the base for any modern society(Especially US's First Amendment). You should foresee the consequences of this. What if a muslim PM get elected in the long future and he invites all Islamic priests? 2) Yes, you have mentioned some of the things that India did on secular grounds. But that doesn't refute the present context. Still wrong doings are happening. Instead of focusing on those, should we remember all the past events and be silent? 3) Islam invades Hindus, then let's Hindus mob-lynch Muslims. Always stuck in who slaughters who. No progress towards right secular habits. John Lock: https://www.amazon.com/Locke-Treatises-Government-Cambridge-Political/dp/0521357306 https://www.amazon.com/Locke-Treatises-Government-Cambridge-...
- ephemeralkey 3y ago
  > Secularism in modern India is a synonym for Hinduphobia ... 1. Secularism is a constitutional principle enshrined in fundamental rights in the Indian constitution. The fundamental *Right to Equality* in the Indian constitution already implies this. Although, the word *secular* was added explicitly to the constitution through the 42nd Amendment (in 1976), it has been implictly read in through various Supreme Court rulings. The dishonest equivalence of secularism with Hinduphobia is by those who want to attack the Right to Equality. 2. The comment mentions polygamy permitted under Muslim personal law. Marriages in India are governed by personal laws. There was a time when inter-religion/inter-caste marriages were illegal. Polygamy among Hindus was legal until 1956 when the Hindu Marriage Act (a personal law) was amended to outlaw polygamy. There is a landmark case currently underway on the equality of marriage sought by LGBTQ+ individuals to bring same-sex marriage the same legal protections as marriage between a man and a woman. This is an evolving legal area. The courts are quite conscious of the fact that not everyone, including Hindus want personal laws to be overturned (as it also impacts succession, property rights etc.,). There will be broad based support for overturning some anachronistic personal laws due to intersectionality (eg: Hindu gay men wanting to marry or Muslim women wanting triple-Talaq (divorce) law overtuned). > It is only in "secular" India that organized religious conversions were allowed (emphasis added) ... 3. It is right there in the constitution. Article 25 (1) states that: *Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practise and propagate religion* 4. The word *propagate religion* includes religious conversions. So, proselytizing is covered by the constituion. The law also says *forcible conversions* are illegal since it infringes on right to freely practice one's religion. Of course, the fascists will equate all proselytizing with forcible conversions.
  - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
    > Secularism is a constitutional principle The constitution can say whatever it wants. The only thing that matters is what actually happens on the ground. Successive governments have adopted Hinduphobic positions and laws while claiming to be secular. Why are only Hindu temples under the control of various state governments? Why don't governments take similar control of cathedrals, churches and mosques? There is example after example proving my position. All you have is some words in a document that are belied by the actions of those meant to observe it. > Right to Equality Religious minorities can run their own schools where they can teach their children their way of life? Can Hindus do this qua Hindus? Again, words in a document that contradict other words in the same document. > Hindu Marriage Act (a personal law) was amended to outlaw polygamy Why were Muslims not given the same benefits or punished in the same manner (whichever way you want to look at it)? How can you be secular and equal if two men or two women are treated differently before the law for the exact same action? This is a joke masquerading as justice. > Of course, the fascists will equate all proselytizing with forcible conversions. You can believe that Christianity is so superior to local religious practices that an entire state almost completely adopted the religion voluntarily in 3-4 generations. Given the history of Christian missionaries in India, South America and other parts of the world and the tactics they adopted, this is a simplistic argument/position. There is literature available from Missionaries, in their own words, as to their opinions about Indian religious traditions and the people practicing them. Arun Shourie has written a couple of books on the subject.[1][2] An individual here or there converting to a different faith is one thing. When religions conversions are used to shift demography, this has national security implications. Separatist movements grew in Kashmir and Nagaland. The partition of India was done on Muslim vs. non-Muslim lines where Muslim-majority provinces became Pakistan. Onlygodists will always be in conflict with Manygodists because their worldviews are fundamentally different. Organized conversions must be banned. If the constitution has to be amended to do it, so be it. [1] Missionaries in India: Continuities, Changes, Dilemmas [2] Harvesting Our Souls: Missionaries, Their Design, Their Claims
kalam_throw 3y ago
- Using a symbol of Monarchy as the center piece of this inauguration.

ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago

[flagged]

praveen9920 3y ago
Ever wondered why these "laws" were not repealed or even questioned by the ruling party in the last 9 years, even with an overwhelming majority in parliament?
- ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
  For the same reason that the Republicans continue believing, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they have a chance with black voters. No matter what the BJP tries, they will never get more than 10-15% of the Muslim vote. Hindus accept laws contrary to their interests. Muslims come out on the streets and arm twist their political beneficiaries into reversing judgements and acts that they perceive to be against their interests.[1] [1] Shah Bano case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_...)
  - praveen9920 3y ago
    There are ways of engaging with communities in democracy, rather than creating laws which one group ( majority ) think is right. which is not a great suite of the current ruling party, to be honest. Farmer laws, demonetization etc are some of examples. BTW, If a party cannot do what is required for the country, they probably are not right for ruling the country.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
> It is only in "secular" India that organized religious conversions were allowed that led to Christians going from less that 1% of the population 100 years ago to 90% today in some states But all that happened before India was even fully independent so how is it relevant? Are you saying Christian should be forcibly converted back to Hinduism?
- Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
  I'd partly disagree, there are reports of forced conversions to Islam in Kashmir, and women being raped and murdered on refusing to do so long after independence, as recent as 2021.
Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
Thank you for raising this! it definitely isn't talked about as much as it should, especially in western spheres of dicussion like here on hn
rtbathula 3y ago
1) First of all, state shouldn't involve in any type of religious activities let alone giving priority to one particular religion. It's written in the Constitution and it's the base for any modern society(Especially US's First Amendment). You should foresee the consequences of this. What if a muslim PM get elected in the long future and he invites all Islamic priests? 2) Yes, you have mentioned some of the things that India did on secular grounds. But that doesn't refute the present context. Still wrong doings are happening. Instead of focusing on those, should we remember all the past events and be silent? 3) Islam invades Hindus, then let's Hindus mob-lynch Muslims. Always stuck in who slaughters who. No progress towards right secular habits. John Lock: https://www.amazon.com/Locke-Treatises-Government-Cambridge-Political/dp/0521357306 https://www.amazon.com/Locke-Treatises-Government-Cambridge-...
ephemeralkey 3y ago
> Secularism in modern India is a synonym for Hinduphobia ... 1. Secularism is a constitutional principle enshrined in fundamental rights in the Indian constitution. The fundamental *Right to Equality* in the Indian constitution already implies this. Although, the word *secular* was added explicitly to the constitution through the 42nd Amendment (in 1976), it has been implictly read in through various Supreme Court rulings. The dishonest equivalence of secularism with Hinduphobia is by those who want to attack the Right to Equality. 2. The comment mentions polygamy permitted under Muslim personal law. Marriages in India are governed by personal laws. There was a time when inter-religion/inter-caste marriages were illegal. Polygamy among Hindus was legal until 1956 when the Hindu Marriage Act (a personal law) was amended to outlaw polygamy. There is a landmark case currently underway on the equality of marriage sought by LGBTQ+ individuals to bring same-sex marriage the same legal protections as marriage between a man and a woman. This is an evolving legal area. The courts are quite conscious of the fact that not everyone, including Hindus want personal laws to be overturned (as it also impacts succession, property rights etc.,). There will be broad based support for overturning some anachronistic personal laws due to intersectionality (eg: Hindu gay men wanting to marry or Muslim women wanting triple-Talaq (divorce) law overtuned). > It is only in "secular" India that organized religious conversions were allowed (emphasis added) ... 3. It is right there in the constitution. Article 25 (1) states that: *Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practise and propagate religion* 4. The word *propagate religion* includes religious conversions. So, proselytizing is covered by the constituion. The law also says *forcible conversions* are illegal since it infringes on right to freely practice one's religion. Of course, the fascists will equate all proselytizing with forcible conversions.
- ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
  > Secularism is a constitutional principle The constitution can say whatever it wants. The only thing that matters is what actually happens on the ground. Successive governments have adopted Hinduphobic positions and laws while claiming to be secular. Why are only Hindu temples under the control of various state governments? Why don't governments take similar control of cathedrals, churches and mosques? There is example after example proving my position. All you have is some words in a document that are belied by the actions of those meant to observe it. > Right to Equality Religious minorities can run their own schools where they can teach their children their way of life? Can Hindus do this qua Hindus? Again, words in a document that contradict other words in the same document. > Hindu Marriage Act (a personal law) was amended to outlaw polygamy Why were Muslims not given the same benefits or punished in the same manner (whichever way you want to look at it)? How can you be secular and equal if two men or two women are treated differently before the law for the exact same action? This is a joke masquerading as justice. > Of course, the fascists will equate all proselytizing with forcible conversions. You can believe that Christianity is so superior to local religious practices that an entire state almost completely adopted the religion voluntarily in 3-4 generations. Given the history of Christian missionaries in India, South America and other parts of the world and the tactics they adopted, this is a simplistic argument/position. There is literature available from Missionaries, in their own words, as to their opinions about Indian religious traditions and the people practicing them. Arun Shourie has written a couple of books on the subject.[1][2] An individual here or there converting to a different faith is one thing. When religions conversions are used to shift demography, this has national security implications. Separatist movements grew in Kashmir and Nagaland. The partition of India was done on Muslim vs. non-Muslim lines where Muslim-majority provinces became Pakistan. Onlygodists will always be in conflict with Manygodists because their worldviews are fundamentally different. Organized conversions must be banned. If the constitution has to be amended to do it, so be it. [1] Missionaries in India: Continuities, Changes, Dilemmas [2] Harvesting Our Souls: Missionaries, Their Design, Their Claims

kalam_throw 3y ago

- Using a symbol of Monarchy as the center piece of this inauguration.