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Someone reading my code could probably point out profound numbers of code quality issues. But I would want to know what they've done themselves to evaluate the

Someone reading my code could probably point out profound numbers of code quality issues. But I would want to know what they've done themselves to evaluate the weight of their expertise. If they have impressive projects, their criticism means something. there was a koan about the progression of someone's Java program from beginner to intermediate, to expert to master to enlightened. The code for the enlightened looked the same as the beginner. These koans are useful too https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html Edit: In other words, say a developer that criticized wordpress, do you respect what they say more than the success and value of wordpress (of the wordpress developers)?

okl 3y ago
You describe an appeal to accomplishment fallacy. Whether or not someone has done x or y themselves has no bearing on whether your code has quality issues.
- samsquire 3y ago
  The merit of the code quality issues is in question based on the authoritativeness of the person doing the criticising. I don't like the pride, superiority and smugness that comes from criticizing code and the assumption that they're the ones in the right because of their criticism, rather than the expertise of the one who wrote the code and solved the problem and did the work. I've noticed people pay more attention to the stones that people throw rather than those throwing them. Edit: In other words, criticism is cheap if you have no skin in the game. I don't think it's a fallacy, it's like hosting a wedding and inviting a guest and then being criticised for the entertainment on offer. People pay attention to the criticism, not that the criticism is coming from a guest and that their criticism is not as valuable coming from the guest than the people paying for and tastes of those hosting the wedding. Whether or not the code quality issues are true or not, their importance is dependent and weight of someone's criticism is not that high as everyone thinks.
- yobbo 3y ago
  "Quality" is not an indisputable property of the code. Someone's judgement about code quality can only have as much weight as their competence.
pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
Koans, proverbs and quotes are a lazy shortcut to sounding authoritative. If you had something of substance to say, you could argue for it directly, instead trying to make it sound like some specious ancient wisdom. > Edit: In other words, say a developer that criticized wordpress, do you respect what they say more than the success and value of wordpress? Depends on the content of the criticism. There are many legitimate criticisms to be had about WordPress, and they can't all be dismissed with "it's popular, so it must be good".
- samsquire 3y ago
  Don't Critics hide under the authoritativeness of "best practices"? What is whatever they think and agree with. The critics think they're authoritatively right, as if they know what is best in all cases and scenarios. (But they're not the ones who did the work.) An authoritative source of accomplishment or demonstration is more valuable than someone with no skin in the game, or who doesn't even contribute even if what they say is true. Wordpress has had security issues, I didn't mean to say popular = good. What I meant is that I trust the wordpress developer's ability to know how to write software that works than someone who doesn't know how or has ever written successful software but knows how to avoid security issues. Don't let perfect be enemy of the good :-) What would you prefer or listen to more? More developers capable of writing wordpress-successful products or more developers who can criticize but can't build anything. You could listen to the wordpress developer's attitudes on software development but you wouldn't take their security advice. Maybe you would ignore the criticizer's criticism on how to build software.
  - pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
    > Don't Critics hide under the authoritativeness of "best practices"? That's true! Just calling something a best practice does not make it so. That also has to be argued for, by demonstrating the consequences of one practice over another. > I trust the wordpress developer's ability to know how to write software that works than someone who doesn't know how or has ever written successful software but knows how to avoid security issues. Criticism being easier to state than address does not invalidate the criticism. "Sure, this extension may be full of SQL injection bugs, but that's easier said than fixed, so it doesn't matter. I'm going to install it anyway."
josephg 3y ago
> there was a koan about the progression of someone's Java program from beginner to intermediate, to expert to master to enlightened. The code for the enlightened looked the same as the beginner. Mmm I've been programming for 30 years across a lot of languages. My code doesn't look the same as it did when I was a beginner. Sure has flopped around a lot though. Take comments: - When I started, I used no comments (because I was ignorant) - Then I put comments everywhere because someone told me it was good practice - Then someone said comments are a sign your functions are too long and poorly named. So I went back to no comments for a bit. But I sort of hated the resulting code - functions were too small and it still wasn't "obvious" no matter how cleverly I named my functions. - So then I had a few comments here and there, wherever my code wasn't "obvious". - Then I tried literate programming, and my code was in small islands amidst an essay of comment. That was fun, but it didn't last. These days I use comments for 2 purposes: to document my APIs, and to write little letters to my future self. Eg: // This code looks wrong at first glance, but its actually correct. // Here's why: ...
- 2devnull 3y ago
  // this code looks wrong but was mandated by the pm in the 3/3/22 memo. I do not endorse

okl 3y ago

You describe an appeal to accomplishment fallacy. Whether or not someone has done x or y themselves has no bearing on whether your code has quality issues.

samsquire 3y ago
The merit of the code quality issues is in question based on the authoritativeness of the person doing the criticising. I don't like the pride, superiority and smugness that comes from criticizing code and the assumption that they're the ones in the right because of their criticism, rather than the expertise of the one who wrote the code and solved the problem and did the work. I've noticed people pay more attention to the stones that people throw rather than those throwing them. Edit: In other words, criticism is cheap if you have no skin in the game. I don't think it's a fallacy, it's like hosting a wedding and inviting a guest and then being criticised for the entertainment on offer. People pay attention to the criticism, not that the criticism is coming from a guest and that their criticism is not as valuable coming from the guest than the people paying for and tastes of those hosting the wedding. Whether or not the code quality issues are true or not, their importance is dependent and weight of someone's criticism is not that high as everyone thinks.
yobbo 3y ago
"Quality" is not an indisputable property of the code. Someone's judgement about code quality can only have as much weight as their competence.

pwdisswordfishc 3y ago

Koans, proverbs and quotes are a lazy shortcut to sounding authoritative. If you had something of substance to say, you could argue for it directly, instead trying to make it sound like some specious ancient wisdom. > Edit: In other words, say a developer that criticized wordpress, do you respect what they say more than the success and value of wordpress? Depends on the content of the criticism. There are many legitimate criticisms to be had about WordPress, and they can't all be dismissed with "it's popular, so it must be good".

samsquire 3y ago
Don't Critics hide under the authoritativeness of "best practices"? What is whatever they think and agree with. The critics think they're authoritatively right, as if they know what is best in all cases and scenarios. (But they're not the ones who did the work.) An authoritative source of accomplishment or demonstration is more valuable than someone with no skin in the game, or who doesn't even contribute even if what they say is true. Wordpress has had security issues, I didn't mean to say popular = good. What I meant is that I trust the wordpress developer's ability to know how to write software that works than someone who doesn't know how or has ever written successful software but knows how to avoid security issues. Don't let perfect be enemy of the good :-) What would you prefer or listen to more? More developers capable of writing wordpress-successful products or more developers who can criticize but can't build anything. You could listen to the wordpress developer's attitudes on software development but you wouldn't take their security advice. Maybe you would ignore the criticizer's criticism on how to build software.
- pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
  > Don't Critics hide under the authoritativeness of "best practices"? That's true! Just calling something a best practice does not make it so. That also has to be argued for, by demonstrating the consequences of one practice over another. > I trust the wordpress developer's ability to know how to write software that works than someone who doesn't know how or has ever written successful software but knows how to avoid security issues. Criticism being easier to state than address does not invalidate the criticism. "Sure, this extension may be full of SQL injection bugs, but that's easier said than fixed, so it doesn't matter. I'm going to install it anyway."

josephg 3y ago

> there was a koan about the progression of someone's Java program from beginner to intermediate, to expert to master to enlightened. The code for the enlightened looked the same as the beginner. Mmm I've been programming for 30 years across a lot of languages. My code doesn't look the same as it did when I was a beginner. Sure has flopped around a lot though. Take comments: - When I started, I used no comments (because I was ignorant) - Then I put comments everywhere because someone told me it was good practice - Then someone said comments are a sign your functions are too long and poorly named. So I went back to no comments for a bit. But I sort of hated the resulting code - functions were too small and it still wasn't "obvious" no matter how cleverly I named my functions. - So then I had a few comments here and there, wherever my code wasn't "obvious". - Then I tried literate programming, and my code was in small islands amidst an essay of comment. That was fun, but it didn't last. These days I use comments for 2 purposes: to document my APIs, and to write little letters to my future self. Eg: // This code looks wrong at first glance, but its actually correct. // Here's why: ...

2devnull 3y ago
// this code looks wrong but was mandated by the pm in the 3/3/22 memo. I do not endorse