3 ms·

Thomas Paine had a few choice words to say in answer your question, though I won't repeat them here. I don't agree with him on that point, but I haven't come a

by than3 3y ago

Thomas Paine had a few choice words to say in answer your question, though I won't repeat them here. I don't agree with him on that point, but I haven't come across any other practical wisdom that accounts better for how to deal with people who do not give up power willingly. I continue to hope, but then again I'm an eternal optimist at heart. Systems could enforce it independently such as currency indirectly, if you required a funding plan for any proposed program. It does require functioning arms of government though and printing more money than tax revenue obviously not being an option. Corruption would need to be minimized with harsh penalties and not allowing conflicts of interest. Basic stuff.

hayst4ck 3y ago
Then we have come to terms, you understand the awful truth, but are in denial about the reality of it because it is so awful. That awful truth is that we are directly responsible for democracy, and that if everyone shirks that responsibility and that requirement of sacrifice, there can be no democracy. Someone must sacrifice. You cannot have democracy or republic without citizens who live the ideal of "live free or die" or an educated aristocracy that can see the bigger picture and are convinced that they must exercise their power with responsibility. You understand that in the game of prisoners dilemma, if the aristocracy defects and there are no consequences, that choice of defection is a winning strategy. You understandably don't like the answer because you bear responsibility for your half of the strategy, your strategy multiplied over the entire population is the game. It takes an MLK to bear that burden and we have none. I think you underestimate unionization as a 2nd amendment alternative. Unions are not a legal construct, but a power construct. Companies and the economy at large cannot function without labor, and unions purpose are to use this property to get a seat at the negotiation table. Do you think if we start shouting "no taxation without representation" it's going to be easier next year than it is this year? Of course not. Power is consolidating and will continue to do so, and the cost of taking it back is only going to go up unless our aristocracy can sort itself out, which is just "hope as a strategy." If you work in tech it should be obvious that hope is not a strategy. I'm sure the average Russian citizen used hope as a strategy, that's certainly the consequence of inaction. FWIW, you might like the works of yale history professor Timothy Snyder. I think I am more extreme than him, but he is definitely the modern embodiment of the ideals of our founding fathers. He prescribes investing in our institutions as the potential back-pressure on our decay (my choice of word, not his). "On Tyranny" is a great very short book and he also put it on youtube. Very much worth a read/watch. I think you would enjoy Snyder's talks on the "politics of inevitability" (on youtube) and the idea that democracy is something you do, not something you are. Which means democracy is the sum total of actions, culture, and beliefs of a society, not a structure and not a ritual. He would likely critique my post as one advocating for "mob rule." Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Lessig also has some pretty choice words on the state of our democracy and has hope that we can alter it's course via education and campaign finance reform, particularly starting at the local level in an effort to eventually promote it federally.
- than3 3y ago
  My experience of unions in general is more akin to the corrupt demagogues of Rome, or the corrupt magistrate of Japanese historical drama. Initially they were an alternative, but no longer given current case-law relating to corporate sovereignty and other legal frameworks/interpretations that allow dual faces when its most beneficial (i.e. your a person when it suits, your a corporation and not your responsibility when you'd go to jail as a person). I've been paying close attention to the rail workers which have been largely absent from media and ruminating on what normally happens when you tell people that they cannot strike and must continue to work without pay increases in the face of staggering inflation over the span of 20+ years. > Do you think if we start shouting ... I think, at least from my studies, evil has a way of shooting itself in the foot, and compulsion; coercion and deceit all fall into that definition, at least when it comes to cascade failures and their resulting outcomes (historically, thinking of the Cultural Revolution under Mao). You can only really do whatever is within your sphere of influence, given the consolidation of power outstripped my generation, there isn't much to do besides prepare for the worst. If it is inevitable as most cascade failures become at some point, at least insofar that it happens regardless of anything you do, those that are prepared have greater opportunity to survive. Engines either burnout or stall when the balance of factors disrupts normal operations. I'll take a look at Timothy Snyder, I hadn't heard of him. I'm familiar with LL, I liked Lawrence Lessig's presentation on tweedism. Really to the point. As for your comment about Companies and the economy not functioning without labor. That is true, but its a troubling area because for a time they can function without labor. This is part of why AI/GPT related derivatives should be banned; but that's a topic for another day.
  - hayst4ck 3y ago
    RE: AI I think you will enjoy this if you didn't see it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13tpq18/heartbreaking_seth_macfarlane_actually_makes_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13tpq18/hear...
    - than3 3y ago
      Thanks. I loved the thread its spot on about replicator technology.

by than3 3y ago

hayst4ck 3y ago

Then we have come to terms, you understand the awful truth, but are in denial about the reality of it because it is so awful. That awful truth is that we are directly responsible for democracy, and that if everyone shirks that responsibility and that requirement of sacrifice, there can be no democracy. Someone must sacrifice. You cannot have democracy or republic without citizens who live the ideal of "live free or die" or an educated aristocracy that can see the bigger picture and are convinced that they must exercise their power with responsibility. You understand that in the game of prisoners dilemma, if the aristocracy defects and there are no consequences, that choice of defection is a winning strategy. You understandably don't like the answer because you bear responsibility for your half of the strategy, your strategy multiplied over the entire population is the game. It takes an MLK to bear that burden and we have none. I think you underestimate unionization as a 2nd amendment alternative. Unions are not a legal construct, but a power construct. Companies and the economy at large cannot function without labor, and unions purpose are to use this property to get a seat at the negotiation table. Do you think if we start shouting "no taxation without representation" it's going to be easier next year than it is this year? Of course not. Power is consolidating and will continue to do so, and the cost of taking it back is only going to go up unless our aristocracy can sort itself out, which is just "hope as a strategy." If you work in tech it should be obvious that hope is not a strategy. I'm sure the average Russian citizen used hope as a strategy, that's certainly the consequence of inaction. FWIW, you might like the works of yale history professor Timothy Snyder. I think I am more extreme than him, but he is definitely the modern embodiment of the ideals of our founding fathers. He prescribes investing in our institutions as the potential back-pressure on our decay (my choice of word, not his). "On Tyranny" is a great very short book and he also put it on youtube. Very much worth a read/watch. I think you would enjoy Snyder's talks on the "politics of inevitability" (on youtube) and the idea that democracy is something you do, not something you are. Which means democracy is the sum total of actions, culture, and beliefs of a society, not a structure and not a ritual. He would likely critique my post as one advocating for "mob rule." Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Lessig also has some pretty choice words on the state of our democracy and has hope that we can alter it's course via education and campaign finance reform, particularly starting at the local level in an effort to eventually promote it federally.

than3 3y ago
My experience of unions in general is more akin to the corrupt demagogues of Rome, or the corrupt magistrate of Japanese historical drama. Initially they were an alternative, but no longer given current case-law relating to corporate sovereignty and other legal frameworks/interpretations that allow dual faces when its most beneficial (i.e. your a person when it suits, your a corporation and not your responsibility when you'd go to jail as a person). I've been paying close attention to the rail workers which have been largely absent from media and ruminating on what normally happens when you tell people that they cannot strike and must continue to work without pay increases in the face of staggering inflation over the span of 20+ years. > Do you think if we start shouting ... I think, at least from my studies, evil has a way of shooting itself in the foot, and compulsion; coercion and deceit all fall into that definition, at least when it comes to cascade failures and their resulting outcomes (historically, thinking of the Cultural Revolution under Mao). You can only really do whatever is within your sphere of influence, given the consolidation of power outstripped my generation, there isn't much to do besides prepare for the worst. If it is inevitable as most cascade failures become at some point, at least insofar that it happens regardless of anything you do, those that are prepared have greater opportunity to survive. Engines either burnout or stall when the balance of factors disrupts normal operations. I'll take a look at Timothy Snyder, I hadn't heard of him. I'm familiar with LL, I liked Lawrence Lessig's presentation on tweedism. Really to the point. As for your comment about Companies and the economy not functioning without labor. That is true, but its a troubling area because for a time they can function without labor. This is part of why AI/GPT related derivatives should be banned; but that's a topic for another day.
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  RE: AI I think you will enjoy this if you didn't see it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13tpq18/heartbreaking_seth_macfarlane_actually_makes_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13tpq18/hear...
  - than3 3y ago
    Thanks. I loved the thread its spot on about replicator technology.