3 ms·

As an ESL speaker. Is this distinction between nice and kind standard?

by jraph 3y ago

astura 3y ago
No.
kjeetgill 3y ago
I think it's one of those distinction people are trying to impose on the words rather than how they've always been used. I think there's a popular blog post that kicked it off.
- PaulRobinson 3y ago
  Their etymology and original meanings are completely different. Their merging into synonyms is as daft to me as “literally” now meaning figuratively or metaphorically.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  The distinction between the two concepts is real. The word choice... I don't know. I haven't heard of the blog post. I'm ESL speaker, and yet when 'PaulRobinson made the distinction, I immediately knew what they're talking about, and I even though "nice" vs. "kind" is exactly the right word pair to use.
  - glogla 3y ago
    It is funny because I feel the difference, yet can't really explain it easily because my native language has just one word for both concepts.
PaulRobinson 3y ago
Sort of. When you point it out to a native English speaker, and give examples, it becomes obvious. But it often needs pointing out, because they can be used as synonyms. In this instance I’m saying “nice” is just giving pleasant vibes no matter what, and being kind is being friendly and supportive but not always being nice. If you put on clothes that don’t suit you it is nice to say that they do (because I want to keep things pleasant), but it’s kind to say something else suits you better (because I want the best for you, not to pretend everything is fine). Telling you they don’t suit you and leaving it at that is just mean: I haven’t helped you and now you feel bad. Worth noting the etymology for kind is from “kin”, meaning family. Family should want the best for you, and frame things in a way that can help you, even if they are telling you things that might not be pleasant. We need more kinship in modern life. Less “honesty”.
ryan_lane 3y ago
Yep! Being nice takes very little effort. Being kind requires thoughtfulness. It's possible to be nice and not kind, and also possible to be kind and not nice. For example, if I worked on your team, and always gave harsh PR feedback, I wouldn't be nice, but if I always sent feedback to your manager after you fixed up the PRs, saying how rigorous you were in your followups, and how good your code is, I'd be kind. On the other hand, if I always gave you positive feedback on good things you did in the code, didn't call out nits in your code, I'd probably be nice. If months later I went back and looked at your codebase and it was a mess due to lots of little things adding up and told your manager you coded poorly, then I wouldn't be kind.
willcipriano 3y ago
California = Nice. "My car broke down" "Oh that is so bad! I really feel for you!" New York = Kind. "My car broke down" "Well I guess I have to drive your broke ass to work now"
circlefavshape 3y ago
No. It's fashionable on the internet right now, and maybe will become standard one day, but at the moment it is not

As an ESL speaker. Is this distinction between nice and kind standard?

by jraph 3y ago

As an ESL speaker. Is this distinction between nice and kind standard?

astura 3y ago

No.

kjeetgill 3y ago

I think it's one of those distinction people are trying to impose on the words rather than how they've always been used. I think there's a popular blog post that kicked it off.

PaulRobinson 3y ago
Their etymology and original meanings are completely different. Their merging into synonyms is as daft to me as “literally” now meaning figuratively or metaphorically.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
The distinction between the two concepts is real. The word choice... I don't know. I haven't heard of the blog post. I'm ESL speaker, and yet when 'PaulRobinson made the distinction, I immediately knew what they're talking about, and I even though "nice" vs. "kind" is exactly the right word pair to use.
- glogla 3y ago
  It is funny because I feel the difference, yet can't really explain it easily because my native language has just one word for both concepts.

PaulRobinson 3y ago

Sort of. When you point it out to a native English speaker, and give examples, it becomes obvious. But it often needs pointing out, because they can be used as synonyms. In this instance I’m saying “nice” is just giving pleasant vibes no matter what, and being kind is being friendly and supportive but not always being nice. If you put on clothes that don’t suit you it is nice to say that they do (because I want to keep things pleasant), but it’s kind to say something else suits you better (because I want the best for you, not to pretend everything is fine). Telling you they don’t suit you and leaving it at that is just mean: I haven’t helped you and now you feel bad. Worth noting the etymology for kind is from “kin”, meaning family. Family should want the best for you, and frame things in a way that can help you, even if they are telling you things that might not be pleasant. We need more kinship in modern life. Less “honesty”.

ryan_lane 3y ago

Yep! Being nice takes very little effort. Being kind requires thoughtfulness. It's possible to be nice and not kind, and also possible to be kind and not nice. For example, if I worked on your team, and always gave harsh PR feedback, I wouldn't be nice, but if I always sent feedback to your manager after you fixed up the PRs, saying how rigorous you were in your followups, and how good your code is, I'd be kind. On the other hand, if I always gave you positive feedback on good things you did in the code, didn't call out nits in your code, I'd probably be nice. If months later I went back and looked at your codebase and it was a mess due to lots of little things adding up and told your manager you coded poorly, then I wouldn't be kind.

willcipriano 3y ago

California = Nice. "My car broke down" "Oh that is so bad! I really feel for you!" New York = Kind. "My car broke down" "Well I guess I have to drive your broke ass to work now"

circlefavshape 3y ago

No. It's fashionable on the internet right now, and maybe will become standard one day, but at the moment it is not