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DESKTOP is somewhat in the middle between MS-Windows and Norton Commander... Does anyone here recall the intuitive nature of Norton Commander, especially in

*DESKTOP is somewhat in the middle between MS-Windows and Norton Commander...* Does anyone here recall the intuitive nature of Norton Commander, especially in terms of file operations? This may be reaching back about three decades, so my recollection might be a bit hazy. As I recall, it was a viable alternative to Windows Explorer even during the era of Windows 3.1. One particular aspect that stands out to me was the dual-pane interface. This allowed for seamless navigation within the directory hierarchy - you could tag files in the pane on one side, then initiate a move or copy operation to the directory in the other pane, and vice versa. Given the complexity of today's file operations and UIs, Norton Commander's straightforward approach feels refreshingly simple and efficient in hindsight. I'd be interested to hear other users' reminiscences and thoughts.

galkk 3y ago
Norton-style commanders were huge in xUSSR. FAR and Dos Navigator were among the most popular, and in the end FAR won it (as it was windows app and got rich ecosystem of plugins). They were good not only due dual panel interface (newer versions were actually multi-panel, where you cold go as many 2 panel "workspaces" as you want), but they enabled extremely efficient keyboard only workflows. Windows couldn't get it even now. Far is still alive: https://www.farmanager.com/ https://www.farmanager.com/ Also I don't use it, but I install midnight commander on every my linux setup just for memories.
- networked 3y ago
  Don't forget Volkov Commander (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkov_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkov_Commander). It was convenient for bootable floppies because of its small size and self-contained design. Far 2 has a Linux (as well as macOS and BSD) port that is quite active: https://github.com/elfmz/far2l https://github.com/elfmz/far2l. Far Manager was what I switched to from Norton Commander. These days I prefer Double Commander, a cross-platform Total Commander workalike: https://doublecmd.sourceforge.io/ https://doublecmd.sourceforge.io/.
  - blackhaz 3y ago
    Can't live without Double Commander. If anyone is wondering how it looks: https://ibb.co/Xbbp9qM https://ibb.co/Xbbp9qM
    - networked 3y ago
      Nice Motif window decorations. What window manager is it? This is what my Double Commander looks like: https://paste.dbohdan.com/doublecmd.mr2hnji.png https://paste.dbohdan.com/doublecmd.mr2hnji.png. (Small screenshot because I am connected to my computer from an iPad at half its native resolution.)
      - hulitu 3y ago
        Looks like SGI Motif or 5DWM.
      - blackhaz 3y ago
        Thanks! This is Xfce4 with an SGI theme and OneStepBack style.
  - galkk 3y ago
    If I recall correctly one of selling points of Volkov commander was that it was written in assembler and was .com file, so it was smaller than .exe (.com files didn’t had some bloat but paid for it with file size limit).
- Osiris 3y ago
  I still use midnight commander on Linux.
omegabravo 3y ago
In SCADA systems I know teams that still use XTreeGold on Windows today
- robarr 3y ago
  Check out ztreewin. It’s xtree gold only windows native. https://www.ztree.com/ https://www.ztree.com/
jiveturkey 3y ago
> Does anyone here recall Well, midnight commander is still actively updated even today in 2023.
- 6c696e7578 3y ago
  Was going to mention mc as modern. Most people wouldn't see past the TUI.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah mc is great. Especially if you want to select an arbitrary group of files in a huge folder.
upon_drumhead 3y ago
I was a heavy user of "The Directory Commander" or DCOM. I found an image at http://old-dos.ru/screens/6/9/8/5443786e5b93f5c6b2a83da43df63.png http://old-dos.ru/screens/6/9/8/5443786e5b93f5c6b2a83da43df6... I recall being able to function really effectively with it's multiple panes and tagging, however it's been 30 years, so my memory might be entirely rosey
thom 3y ago
It also performed the very important function of setting up a parallel cable connection to my brother’s computer so we could play DOOM together.
sdrinf 3y ago
If you're looking for present-day windows equalent, Total Commander (https://www.ghisler.com/ https://www.ghisler.com/) is excellent -daily driver for me since '99.
JdeBP 3y ago
The name that will help here is an orthodox file manager.
Krisjohn 3y ago
I used Norton Commander back in the DOS days, but hated the Windows product. I still find myself tossing Midnight Commander onto places I only have a text mode console for. (Great for Windows Core.) My daily file manager now is Directory Opus. The dual pane stuff is at the core of how I use it.
6c696e7578 3y ago
Was a bit like XTree Gold, but not quite.
- robarr 3y ago
  Xtreegold reincarnated in ztreewin https://www.ztree.com/ https://www.ztree.com/. It is not free but it is a native windows program. There is even a fan page with a list of clones resembling more or less to xtree https://www.xtreefanpage.org/x63clone.htm https://www.xtreefanpage.org/x63clone.htm
- LVB 3y ago
  I credit XTree with building some of my foundational CS intuition. At 11 y/o I became a master at grouping, filtering, tagging, inverting, summing subgroups (directories), and coming up with efficient routes to moving stuff around as we coped with our ever-stuffed 10MB drive.
badsectoracula 3y ago
I basically use Total Commander and Double Commander (open source TC clone) even on Linux as file managers (TC is a windows program but i use it via Wine, DC works natively on Linux but has missing features and bugs but it is easier to work with other native Linux apps while TC needs a bunch of workarounds). These are NC-like programs.
prmoustache 3y ago
It is funny that people mostly remember Norton Commander while it came very late in msdos history. Back in 1987 we were using Microsoft Dos Manager on our intel 8088 that was doing pretty much the same thing already, offering a dual pane. You can see it here: https://www.pcjs.org/software/pcx86/sys/ext/microsoft/dosmgr/1.00/ https://www.pcjs.org/software/pcx86/sys/ext/microsoft/dosmgr... (F9 to split panes, options menu allow to change color scheme)
- glandium 3y ago
  PC Tools was another popular option back then. I really liked its PC Shell.
dfox 3y ago
> it was a viable alternative to Windows Explorer Because there was no "Windows Explorer" before Windows 95 and the "MSDOS Executive"/"File Manager" that was used before that was truly horrible and non-intuitive.
lelanthran 3y ago
> One particular aspect that stands out to me was the dual-pane interface. All the file managers I've used recently on my desktop support this (In Caja and the KDE one, press F3 to switch to a dual pane view).
blacklion 3y ago
What do you mean by "recall"? FAR Manager (which is modern incarnation of NC) is second program I install on any new Windows system (after Firefox). All these graphical file managers (both Explorer and Finder) are unusable to me. Absence of FAR is one of the main reasons I can not bear MacOS and, no, Midnight Commander is not replacement for modern FAR.
- jannes 3y ago
  I use Directory Opus on Windows these days. https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/
  - blacklion 3y ago
    Does it have command line and terminal embedded?
- aldanor 3y ago
  Heh, I've been there as well a decade ago when switching from windows to macos. Far manager was also the first program I'd also install on any box. I can assure you, this will eventually pass :) To be fair, far is also not a match to modern file browsers like https://binarynights.com https://binarynights.com (forklift), especially if you need s3 integration etc
  - blacklion 3y ago
    I've worked 6 months on corporate Macbook Pro 16" (M1 Max), and changed it to Dell (which is SLOWER) as soon as it become possible :-) And, not, FAR IS match to these browsers, as here are hundreds if not thousands plugins. S3? We got it. DropBox? We got it. Any file-access protocol, including IMAP (!)? We got it! Also, editor with syntax coloring of hundreds of text formats, embedded command line with history (which works perfectly with addition of POSIX tools, like find, grep, cut, xargs, sort, etc), several ways to rename files by template ("multiple rename" in ForkLift features), etc, etc, etc. Almost any task by organizing, editing and managing files you can name has plugin for FAR, if it is not embedded feature. Does ForkLift support full-powered perl-compatible regular expressions for its operations? FAR does, including batch search-n-replace in text files (and archives!). And it is only 1% of available plugins :-) Plus all of that is controlled by keyboard, no mouse required at all. And all shortcuts are configurable, and here is embedded macro recording abilities.
jaclaz 3y ago
Technically, OFM or Orthodox File Managers, all you wanted to know and didn't dare to ask here: https://softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml https://softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml BTW even if not strictly orthodox, the 7-zip file manager can be used in dual pane and it is very handy.
Torwald 3y ago
another good one, originally steming from the Amiga: https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/

*DESKTOP is somewhat in the middle between MS-Windows and Norton Commander...* Does anyone here recall the intuitive nature of Norton Commander, especially in

galkk 3y ago

Norton-style commanders were huge in xUSSR. FAR and Dos Navigator were among the most popular, and in the end FAR won it (as it was windows app and got rich ecosystem of plugins). They were good not only due dual panel interface (newer versions were actually multi-panel, where you cold go as many 2 panel "workspaces" as you want), but they enabled extremely efficient keyboard only workflows. Windows couldn't get it even now. Far is still alive: https://www.farmanager.com/ https://www.farmanager.com/ Also I don't use it, but I install midnight commander on every my linux setup just for memories.

networked 3y ago
Don't forget Volkov Commander (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkov_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkov_Commander). It was convenient for bootable floppies because of its small size and self-contained design. Far 2 has a Linux (as well as macOS and BSD) port that is quite active: https://github.com/elfmz/far2l https://github.com/elfmz/far2l. Far Manager was what I switched to from Norton Commander. These days I prefer Double Commander, a cross-platform Total Commander workalike: https://doublecmd.sourceforge.io/ https://doublecmd.sourceforge.io/.
- blackhaz 3y ago
  Can't live without Double Commander. If anyone is wondering how it looks: https://ibb.co/Xbbp9qM https://ibb.co/Xbbp9qM
  - networked 3y ago
    Nice Motif window decorations. What window manager is it? This is what my Double Commander looks like: https://paste.dbohdan.com/doublecmd.mr2hnji.png https://paste.dbohdan.com/doublecmd.mr2hnji.png. (Small screenshot because I am connected to my computer from an iPad at half its native resolution.)
    - hulitu 3y ago
      Looks like SGI Motif or 5DWM.
    - blackhaz 3y ago
      Thanks! This is Xfce4 with an SGI theme and OneStepBack style.
- galkk 3y ago
  If I recall correctly one of selling points of Volkov commander was that it was written in assembler and was .com file, so it was smaller than .exe (.com files didn’t had some bloat but paid for it with file size limit).
Osiris 3y ago
I still use midnight commander on Linux.

omegabravo 3y ago

In SCADA systems I know teams that still use XTreeGold on Windows today

robarr 3y ago
Check out ztreewin. It’s xtree gold only windows native. https://www.ztree.com/ https://www.ztree.com/

jiveturkey 3y ago

> Does anyone here recall Well, midnight commander is still actively updated even today in 2023.

6c696e7578 3y ago
Was going to mention mc as modern. Most people wouldn't see past the TUI.
wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah mc is great. Especially if you want to select an arbitrary group of files in a huge folder.

upon_drumhead 3y ago

I was a heavy user of "The Directory Commander" or DCOM. I found an image at http://old-dos.ru/screens/6/9/8/5443786e5b93f5c6b2a83da43df63.png http://old-dos.ru/screens/6/9/8/5443786e5b93f5c6b2a83da43df6... I recall being able to function really effectively with it's multiple panes and tagging, however it's been 30 years, so my memory might be entirely rosey

thom 3y ago

It also performed the very important function of setting up a parallel cable connection to my brother’s computer so we could play DOOM together.

sdrinf 3y ago

If you're looking for present-day windows equalent, Total Commander (https://www.ghisler.com/ https://www.ghisler.com/) is excellent -daily driver for me since '99.

JdeBP 3y ago

The name that will help here is an orthodox file manager.

Krisjohn 3y ago

I used Norton Commander back in the DOS days, but hated the Windows product. I still find myself tossing Midnight Commander onto places I only have a text mode console for. (Great for Windows Core.) My daily file manager now is Directory Opus. The dual pane stuff is at the core of how I use it.

6c696e7578 3y ago

Was a bit like XTree Gold, but not quite.

robarr 3y ago
Xtreegold reincarnated in ztreewin https://www.ztree.com/ https://www.ztree.com/. It is not free but it is a native windows program. There is even a fan page with a list of clones resembling more or less to xtree https://www.xtreefanpage.org/x63clone.htm https://www.xtreefanpage.org/x63clone.htm
LVB 3y ago
I credit XTree with building some of my foundational CS intuition. At 11 y/o I became a master at grouping, filtering, tagging, inverting, summing subgroups (directories), and coming up with efficient routes to moving stuff around as we coped with our ever-stuffed 10MB drive.

badsectoracula 3y ago

I basically use Total Commander and Double Commander (open source TC clone) even on Linux as file managers (TC is a windows program but i use it via Wine, DC works natively on Linux but has missing features and bugs but it is easier to work with other native Linux apps while TC needs a bunch of workarounds). These are NC-like programs.

prmoustache 3y ago

It is funny that people mostly remember Norton Commander while it came very late in msdos history. Back in 1987 we were using Microsoft Dos Manager on our intel 8088 that was doing pretty much the same thing already, offering a dual pane. You can see it here: https://www.pcjs.org/software/pcx86/sys/ext/microsoft/dosmgr/1.00/ https://www.pcjs.org/software/pcx86/sys/ext/microsoft/dosmgr... (F9 to split panes, options menu allow to change color scheme)

glandium 3y ago
PC Tools was another popular option back then. I really liked its PC Shell.

dfox 3y ago

> it was a viable alternative to Windows Explorer Because there was no "Windows Explorer" before Windows 95 and the "MSDOS Executive"/"File Manager" that was used before that was truly horrible and non-intuitive.

lelanthran 3y ago

> One particular aspect that stands out to me was the dual-pane interface. All the file managers I've used recently on my desktop support this (In Caja and the KDE one, press F3 to switch to a dual pane view).

blacklion 3y ago

What do you mean by "recall"? FAR Manager (which is modern incarnation of NC) is second program I install on any new Windows system (after Firefox). All these graphical file managers (both Explorer and Finder) are unusable to me. Absence of FAR is one of the main reasons I can not bear MacOS and, no, Midnight Commander is not replacement for modern FAR.

jannes 3y ago
I use Directory Opus on Windows these days. https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/
- blacklion 3y ago
  Does it have command line and terminal embedded?
aldanor 3y ago
Heh, I've been there as well a decade ago when switching from windows to macos. Far manager was also the first program I'd also install on any box. I can assure you, this will eventually pass :) To be fair, far is also not a match to modern file browsers like https://binarynights.com https://binarynights.com (forklift), especially if you need s3 integration etc
- blacklion 3y ago
  I've worked 6 months on corporate Macbook Pro 16" (M1 Max), and changed it to Dell (which is SLOWER) as soon as it become possible :-) And, not, FAR IS match to these browsers, as here are hundreds if not thousands plugins. S3? We got it. DropBox? We got it. Any file-access protocol, including IMAP (!)? We got it! Also, editor with syntax coloring of hundreds of text formats, embedded command line with history (which works perfectly with addition of POSIX tools, like find, grep, cut, xargs, sort, etc), several ways to rename files by template ("multiple rename" in ForkLift features), etc, etc, etc. Almost any task by organizing, editing and managing files you can name has plugin for FAR, if it is not embedded feature. Does ForkLift support full-powered perl-compatible regular expressions for its operations? FAR does, including batch search-n-replace in text files (and archives!). And it is only 1% of available plugins :-) Plus all of that is controlled by keyboard, no mouse required at all. And all shortcuts are configurable, and here is embedded macro recording abilities.

jaclaz 3y ago

Technically, OFM or Orthodox File Managers, all you wanted to know and didn't dare to ask here: https://softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml https://softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml BTW even if not strictly orthodox, the 7-zip file manager can be used in dual pane and it is very handy.

Torwald 3y ago

another good one, originally steming from the Amiga: https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/