5 ms·

Or trying to catch up to Apple?

snvzz 3y ago
Wei-han Lien (lead architect of M1 at Apple) is the lead architect of Ascalon at Tenstorrent (CEO: Jim Keller). Ascalon is a RISC-V microarchitecture expected to be released in 2024, with similar performance to projected AMD Zen5 (also 2024), but lower power consumption. If ARM is still trying to catch up to Apple, they'll be leapfrogged by RISC-V, as early as that.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  This is pure speculation. ARM has very successful architectures and cores already in the market. The current iteration of the Snapdragon 8cx does a pretty good job in general purpose computing scenarios [0]. There are no RISC-V cores in the market to compete with it. Vendors can and will promise breakthroughs every now and then, that is just how marketing works. It happened before with things like Graviton, and of course Tenstorrent is doing it now. [0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/SD-8cx-Gen-3-vs-M1-vs-M2_14600_12937_14521.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/SD-8cx-Gen-3-vs-M1-vs-M2_14600...
  - snvzz 3y ago
    >There are no RISC-V cores in the market to compete with it. Depends on what "it" is. For the whole Cortex-M line and A53/A55, SiFive has had designs with better power-performance-area for years now. For the higher performance A70 line, SiFive has better designs competing up to A76. There's several other vendors, with their own competitive RISC-V cores. >This is pure speculation. Not when it's based in announcements and talks by the relevant companies. >It happened before with things like Graviton, and of course Tenstorrent is doing it now Wait, why do you think Tenstorrent will not deliver? Do you actually have anything? I have no reason to believe that strong teams that have successfully delivered competitive microarchitectures in a range of companies won't do it with RISC-V now that they're with Tenstorrent, MIPS, Rivos, Ventana, Qualcomm or any others. Ventana's Veyron and Tenstorrent Ascalon are imminent. The other companies are less public about what they're doing. Any one of these efforts could be delayed or underdeliver. All of them? That seems highly unlikely. RISC-V is inevitable.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      What is a “better” design? How do you quantify that? Are RISC-V “better designed” than x86 processors, even when the latter are overwhelmingly more popular and faster than the former? > Not when it's based in announcements and talks by the relevant companies. Again, this is exactly what marketing is. I cannot begin to count how many companies formed by wildly successful leaders of the industry, have failed to deliver. > Any one of these efforts could be delayed or underdeliver. All of them? That seems highly unlikely. Core design and implementation takes years to complete. The supposition is that a handful of relatively new companies will take the processor market by storm in a year or two, with less than a decade of work behind them, and a tenth of the budget, compared to companies like AMD or Intel. That is speculation if I ever seen any.
      - snvzz 3y ago
        >What is a “better” design? How do you quantify that? I mentioned it: power-performance-area. In the case of SiFive, they seem to like comparing each of their designs with a specific one from ARM. They typically manage to perform better, use less area and consume less power, at the same time, relative to the ARM design they picked. >Core design and implementation takes years to complete. These years already happened, these are several years underway. What follows is the products that we are about to see. >and a tenth of the budget There's several billions already invested. Source: RISC-V Foundation's main talks at RISC-V Summit last December. In 2021, the theme was acceleration. In 2022, it was momentum, because it is already there. RISC-V is huge. RISC-V is inevitable. >The supposition is that a handful of relatively new companies will take the processor market by storm in a year or two, with less than a decade of work behind them, and a tenth of the budget, compared to companies like AMD or Intel. Exciting times to live in. I expect AMD and Intel to survive, and find a way to thrive. They can e.g. provide RISC-V CPUs with excellent x86 acceleration, making them an easy choice in markets that depend on x86 software still. I do not have faith ARM will be able to adapt, due to their management's recent behavior. They are dinosaurs. Won't know what hit them.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago

Wei-han Lien (lead architect of M1 at Apple) is the lead architect of Ascalon at Tenstorrent (CEO: Jim Keller). Ascalon is a RISC-V microarchitecture expected to be released in 2024, with similar performance to projected AMD Zen5 (also 2024), but lower power consumption. If ARM is still trying to catch up to Apple, they'll be leapfrogged by RISC-V, as early as that.

manuelabeledo 3y ago
This is pure speculation. ARM has very successful architectures and cores already in the market. The current iteration of the Snapdragon 8cx does a pretty good job in general purpose computing scenarios [0]. There are no RISC-V cores in the market to compete with it. Vendors can and will promise breakthroughs every now and then, that is just how marketing works. It happened before with things like Graviton, and of course Tenstorrent is doing it now. [0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/SD-8cx-Gen-3-vs-M1-vs-M2_14600_12937_14521.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/SD-8cx-Gen-3-vs-M1-vs-M2_14600...
- snvzz 3y ago
  >There are no RISC-V cores in the market to compete with it. Depends on what "it" is. For the whole Cortex-M line and A53/A55, SiFive has had designs with better power-performance-area for years now. For the higher performance A70 line, SiFive has better designs competing up to A76. There's several other vendors, with their own competitive RISC-V cores. >This is pure speculation. Not when it's based in announcements and talks by the relevant companies. >It happened before with things like Graviton, and of course Tenstorrent is doing it now Wait, why do you think Tenstorrent will not deliver? Do you actually have anything? I have no reason to believe that strong teams that have successfully delivered competitive microarchitectures in a range of companies won't do it with RISC-V now that they're with Tenstorrent, MIPS, Rivos, Ventana, Qualcomm or any others. Ventana's Veyron and Tenstorrent Ascalon are imminent. The other companies are less public about what they're doing. Any one of these efforts could be delayed or underdeliver. All of them? That seems highly unlikely. RISC-V is inevitable.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    What is a “better” design? How do you quantify that? Are RISC-V “better designed” than x86 processors, even when the latter are overwhelmingly more popular and faster than the former? > Not when it's based in announcements and talks by the relevant companies. Again, this is exactly what marketing is. I cannot begin to count how many companies formed by wildly successful leaders of the industry, have failed to deliver. > Any one of these efforts could be delayed or underdeliver. All of them? That seems highly unlikely. Core design and implementation takes years to complete. The supposition is that a handful of relatively new companies will take the processor market by storm in a year or two, with less than a decade of work behind them, and a tenth of the budget, compared to companies like AMD or Intel. That is speculation if I ever seen any.
    - snvzz 3y ago
      >What is a “better” design? How do you quantify that? I mentioned it: power-performance-area. In the case of SiFive, they seem to like comparing each of their designs with a specific one from ARM. They typically manage to perform better, use less area and consume less power, at the same time, relative to the ARM design they picked. >Core design and implementation takes years to complete. These years already happened, these are several years underway. What follows is the products that we are about to see. >and a tenth of the budget There's several billions already invested. Source: RISC-V Foundation's main talks at RISC-V Summit last December. In 2021, the theme was acceleration. In 2022, it was momentum, because it is already there. RISC-V is huge. RISC-V is inevitable. >The supposition is that a handful of relatively new companies will take the processor market by storm in a year or two, with less than a decade of work behind them, and a tenth of the budget, compared to companies like AMD or Intel. Exciting times to live in. I expect AMD and Intel to survive, and find a way to thrive. They can e.g. provide RISC-V CPUs with excellent x86 acceleration, making them an easy choice in markets that depend on x86 software still. I do not have faith ARM will be able to adapt, due to their management's recent behavior. They are dinosaurs. Won't know what hit them.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago