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As a millennial, I cannot comprehend how 39% of people could have kids at 25. In between the financial crises, pandemics, and grinding hard to some day afford s

by clnq 3y ago

As a millennial, I cannot comprehend how 39% of people could have kids at 25. In between the financial crises, pandemics, and grinding hard to some day afford something meaningful. like actually appealing real estate, I am not close to having means to support another person. I think there's a baseline for the "child in household" metric. Some % of people will always want to have kids, no matter what circumstances. It's inelastic for them - whether times are great or they are just getting by, or even if they are below the poverty line, they will have kids. Maybe one in six, or one in five. I think a large proportion of people for whom the choice is dependent on circumstances are choosing to not have kids anymore, at least in their 20s.

givemeethekeys 3y ago
Here's how: - You don't live in a big city. Your overheads are quite low. You live in a low-tax state. The amount you'd pay in taxes in California is probably enough to have one more kid in Nevada. - You have familial wealth and / or help. You're with someone you want to be with, your parents are young enough to help you raise the munchkins. - When all your friends are having kids in their early 20's, there's plenty of pressure to have one too.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I think community support is more important than all those factors. Having children is much easier when you are close to parents, friends, and family that share the load. If your family willing to babysit, that saves like 20K a year in a metro area. If your friends have kids, you don't have to choose between personal social time and child rearing. The realities of the world are set up such that you have positive feedback making it easier if your peers are having lots of kids, and negative feedback making it harder if your community is having fewer kids. I have friend groups that have lots of kids and it works out great for them. They socialize multiple times a week for dinners during the week or barbecues on the weekend. One parent will passively watch the kids while the other six or seven parents hang out and enjoy themselves. This lightens the load on everyone.
mattpallissard 3y ago
I have five kids. Had three of them by 25 and my wife was stay at home. We didn't originally have the means to support them. Between grinding it out, tightening belts, and earning more over time you figure it out. My oldest can remember scraping by but my youngest will only know being rich by most people's standards. I'm the oldest from a big family, so is my wife. A bunch of our friends are as well and from what I can tell it's more common than not for the older siblings to remember harder times than the younger ones. It's not like you have to be set in life or comfortable to have kids. I honestly wouldn't be as successful without them. Having kids and struggling to making ends meet really lights an fire under your ass.
joemazerino 3y ago
Some people view family as everything. Budget up, cut waste, find other sources of revenue. Eating out 6x a week, buying expensive coffee and the latest iPhone might pale in comparison to making a Little You.
- vitehozonage 3y ago
  >Eating out 6x a week, buying expensive coffee and the latest iPhone might pale in comparison to making a Little You. Are you joking? What it really means is cutting back on things that actually affect quality of life. Like not being able to spend time with your child because you are working 3 jobs, so they grow up needing therapy and have barely any connection to you. Not having space for them to have their own room, so they grow up with no privacy and strained family relationships. Not being able to feed yourself and your child sufficiently due to cost and being time-poor, so you send them to school without lunch and everyone pities them. Not taking your child to the dentist, so they grow up with lifelong health issues. Not taking your child to the psychiatrist, so they grow up with undiagnosed mental health issues that compromise every aspect of their capability to be happy and educated during childhood and teenage years. Living in a bad neighbourhood so your child goes to a bad school (with lifelong educational consequences), barely ever experiences nature and can't go roam outside. This list is just a very limited subset of the real consequences.
  - clnq 3y ago
    I think you have clashing perspectives, but I don't think they are joking. Both are good and interesting points of view, thank you for sharing.
  - joemazerino 3y ago
    Why is the inevitable result some hard life working 3 jobs? If you care enough you will make it happen. Babies are expensive but they aren't life-changing expensive.
    - vitehozonage 3y ago
      >Babies are expensive but they aren't life-changing expensive. I can't comprehend how you can say that. This is an actual human being with basically unbounded ability to benefit from absorbing your time and resources. >Why is the inevitable result some hard life working 3 jobs? It is a spectrum. The earlier comment in the chain stated "Some % of people will always want to have kids, no matter what circumstances. It's inelastic for them". This is the reality for some people in that spectrum. Anecdotally i'd say for -most- people. At some point, in my opinion, the consequences are bad. Saying it's just about not buying an iPhone seems like a rich person perspective from someone that has no idea how most people live and raise children
throwaway22032 3y ago
My parents just didn't care about any of that. Small town, they rented. Yet here I am. You and I are engineers. We like to ironclad every case in the switch statement, whack an assert here, prove the mathematical theorem. Not every child needs to grow up in San Francisco in a big pool house and go to private school.

by clnq 3y ago

givemeethekeys 3y ago

Here's how: - You don't live in a big city. Your overheads are quite low. You live in a low-tax state. The amount you'd pay in taxes in California is probably enough to have one more kid in Nevada. - You have familial wealth and / or help. You're with someone you want to be with, your parents are young enough to help you raise the munchkins. - When all your friends are having kids in their early 20's, there's plenty of pressure to have one too.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think community support is more important than all those factors. Having children is much easier when you are close to parents, friends, and family that share the load. If your family willing to babysit, that saves like 20K a year in a metro area. If your friends have kids, you don't have to choose between personal social time and child rearing. The realities of the world are set up such that you have positive feedback making it easier if your peers are having lots of kids, and negative feedback making it harder if your community is having fewer kids. I have friend groups that have lots of kids and it works out great for them. They socialize multiple times a week for dinners during the week or barbecues on the weekend. One parent will passively watch the kids while the other six or seven parents hang out and enjoy themselves. This lightens the load on everyone.

mattpallissard 3y ago

I have five kids. Had three of them by 25 and my wife was stay at home. We didn't originally have the means to support them. Between grinding it out, tightening belts, and earning more over time you figure it out. My oldest can remember scraping by but my youngest will only know being rich by most people's standards. I'm the oldest from a big family, so is my wife. A bunch of our friends are as well and from what I can tell it's more common than not for the older siblings to remember harder times than the younger ones. It's not like you have to be set in life or comfortable to have kids. I honestly wouldn't be as successful without them. Having kids and struggling to making ends meet really lights an fire under your ass.

joemazerino 3y ago

Some people view family as everything. Budget up, cut waste, find other sources of revenue. Eating out 6x a week, buying expensive coffee and the latest iPhone might pale in comparison to making a Little You.

vitehozonage 3y ago
>Eating out 6x a week, buying expensive coffee and the latest iPhone might pale in comparison to making a Little You. Are you joking? What it really means is cutting back on things that actually affect quality of life. Like not being able to spend time with your child because you are working 3 jobs, so they grow up needing therapy and have barely any connection to you. Not having space for them to have their own room, so they grow up with no privacy and strained family relationships. Not being able to feed yourself and your child sufficiently due to cost and being time-poor, so you send them to school without lunch and everyone pities them. Not taking your child to the dentist, so they grow up with lifelong health issues. Not taking your child to the psychiatrist, so they grow up with undiagnosed mental health issues that compromise every aspect of their capability to be happy and educated during childhood and teenage years. Living in a bad neighbourhood so your child goes to a bad school (with lifelong educational consequences), barely ever experiences nature and can't go roam outside. This list is just a very limited subset of the real consequences.
- clnq 3y ago
  I think you have clashing perspectives, but I don't think they are joking. Both are good and interesting points of view, thank you for sharing.
- joemazerino 3y ago
  Why is the inevitable result some hard life working 3 jobs? If you care enough you will make it happen. Babies are expensive but they aren't life-changing expensive.
  - vitehozonage 3y ago
    >Babies are expensive but they aren't life-changing expensive. I can't comprehend how you can say that. This is an actual human being with basically unbounded ability to benefit from absorbing your time and resources. >Why is the inevitable result some hard life working 3 jobs? It is a spectrum. The earlier comment in the chain stated "Some % of people will always want to have kids, no matter what circumstances. It's inelastic for them". This is the reality for some people in that spectrum. Anecdotally i'd say for -most- people. At some point, in my opinion, the consequences are bad. Saying it's just about not buying an iPhone seems like a rich person perspective from someone that has no idea how most people live and raise children

throwaway22032 3y ago

My parents just didn't care about any of that. Small town, they rented. Yet here I am. You and I are engineers. We like to ironclad every case in the switch statement, whack an assert here, prove the mathematical theorem. Not every child needs to grow up in San Francisco in a big pool house and go to private school.