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We absolutely should at least try to do so. Re-engineer their neural DNA based on human DNA (probably harder than with other animals since their brain is spread

We absolutely should at least try to do so. Re-engineer their neural DNA based on human DNA (probably harder than with other animals since their brain is spread out onto their limbs), or simply at least increase the neural counts of various regions, etc. We shouldn’t just leave them as-is after doing so though—we should build a super massive aquarium, and if we actually succeeded in making them smarter — be there to teach them science, math, physics, biology, medicine, computer science, etc.

afavour 3y ago
…why?
- dr_dshiv 3y ago
  Golden rule
  - rhtgrg 3y ago
    The platinum rule is generally better. See proc0's reply below. The golden rule is...somewhat narcissistic.
    - dr_dshiv 3y ago
      In the absence of their ability to consent either way, it’s unclear how to give them what they want. How to, for instance, infer that they don’t want more cognitive power. Octopi have unusually high cognitive powers already—arguably that would suggest an implicit desire?
      - rhtgrg 3y ago
        In this case consent, should it be possible, would also be a questionable approach. See: the vampire problem. The trouble is, in this situation, how could you possibly make an informed choice? For, after all, you cannot know what it is like to be a vampire until you are one. And if you can’t know what it’s like to be a vampire without becoming one, you can’t compare the character of the lived experience of what it is like to be you, right now, a mere human, to the character of the lived experience of what it would be like to be a vampire. This means that, if you want to make this choice by considering what you want your lived experience to be like in the future, you can’t do it rationally. At least, you can’t do it by weighing the competing options concerning what it would be like and choosing on this basis. And it seems awfully suspect to rely solely on the testimony of your vampire friends to make your choice, because, after all, they aren’t human any more, so their preferences are the ones vampires have, not the ones humans have. -- L.A. Paul
galacticaactual 3y ago
The absolute arrogance of this kind of thinking...
- dr_dshiv 3y ago
  “the quality of being unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people.” I’m not sure I follow…
  - galacticaactual 3y ago
    You don't follow because...why exactly. Do you believe we should pull animals out of the ocean, inject them with Neuralink-equivalents and force higher order intelligence upon them? If so, state why you believe this is not an arrogant endeavor.
    - dr_dshiv 3y ago
      Well, their ecosystems are getting wrecked and we don’t seem to be able to stop it collectively. So, maybe if a scientist was able to cognitively enhance a few marine creatures, then perhaps they could better adapt and/or advocate for themselves. A cute little octopus directly pleading for its ecosystem on TikTok might accomplish more than a UN report. Why not?
      - 93po 3y ago
        A near-human level intelligent animal, or group of them, is almost assuredly going to use a LOT more resources of their environment than the dumb versions of themselves.
      - galacticaactual 3y ago
        "These people don't know how to govern themselves. We'll do it for them."
        winter_blue 3y ago

afavour 3y ago

…why?

dr_dshiv 3y ago
Golden rule
- rhtgrg 3y ago
  The platinum rule is generally better. See proc0's reply below. The golden rule is...somewhat narcissistic.
  - dr_dshiv 3y ago
    In the absence of their ability to consent either way, it’s unclear how to give them what they want. How to, for instance, infer that they don’t want more cognitive power. Octopi have unusually high cognitive powers already—arguably that would suggest an implicit desire?
    - rhtgrg 3y ago
      In this case consent, should it be possible, would also be a questionable approach. See: the vampire problem. The trouble is, in this situation, how could you possibly make an informed choice? For, after all, you cannot know what it is like to be a vampire until you are one. And if you can’t know what it’s like to be a vampire without becoming one, you can’t compare the character of the lived experience of what it is like to be you, right now, a mere human, to the character of the lived experience of what it would be like to be a vampire. This means that, if you want to make this choice by considering what you want your lived experience to be like in the future, you can’t do it rationally. At least, you can’t do it by weighing the competing options concerning what it would be like and choosing on this basis. And it seems awfully suspect to rely solely on the testimony of your vampire friends to make your choice, because, after all, they aren’t human any more, so their preferences are the ones vampires have, not the ones humans have. -- L.A. Paul

galacticaactual 3y ago

The absolute arrogance of this kind of thinking...

dr_dshiv 3y ago
“the quality of being unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people.” I’m not sure I follow…
- galacticaactual 3y ago
  You don't follow because...why exactly. Do you believe we should pull animals out of the ocean, inject them with Neuralink-equivalents and force higher order intelligence upon them? If so, state why you believe this is not an arrogant endeavor.
  - dr_dshiv 3y ago
    Well, their ecosystems are getting wrecked and we don’t seem to be able to stop it collectively. So, maybe if a scientist was able to cognitively enhance a few marine creatures, then perhaps they could better adapt and/or advocate for themselves. A cute little octopus directly pleading for its ecosystem on TikTok might accomplish more than a UN report. Why not?
    - 93po 3y ago
      A near-human level intelligent animal, or group of them, is almost assuredly going to use a LOT more resources of their environment than the dumb versions of themselves.
    - galacticaactual 3y ago
      "These people don't know how to govern themselves. We'll do it for them."
      - winter_blue 3y ago